TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread

[vwwestyman]

Did a little work on the Bus this weekend.

Over our honeymoon trip, we encountered a reocurring limp mode problem. I could clear the code and use the turbo for a few moments, but soon it would go back to limp mode.

Yesterday I found that the wastegate actuator was leaking and therefore not operating. Lucily I had a good spare on a busted turbo.

I also decided to work on something I've been thinking of doing for a long time.

The accelerator setup has always been a bit notchy, which was really annoying. I attributed it to the alternative cable routing to reach where I had mounted the potentiometer in the back. So I decided to move the potentiometer up to the front.

Unfortunately, there is no longer room for the waterproof box I used. However, it will be protected by the splash pan. I coated the wire end with some "liquid electrical tape" stuff I had to waterproof that, and used dielectric grease at the top where the lever actually twists under the dust cap to keep water out of there. Coupled with the splash pan, I think it will be ok. I do have a spare and they're small, so it'll be easy to stash just in case there is an issue down the road. I'll also consider other ways to protect it from water/dust. Maybe I can creatively come up with some other way to contain it.

I need to lower it slightly as there is one spot where the cable rubs the underside of the floor, but overall the operation is much smoother. I do wish that the internal return spring inside the potentiometer wasn't quite so strong, but perhaps I can counter that with an assist spring under the pedal.

I just need to decide exactly how I will extend the wiring. To make swapping quick and easy in case this one doesn't survive, I need to have the plug up front.

So I could certainly just snip the wiring in the back and solder in my extension, I'm just trying to decide whether it is worth the trouble to make a plug in the back, too.

Newer VWs use a floor mounted pedal with the potentiometer built in (vs. a pedal that is mounted/hinged from above as is my Golf) but I think the signal is too different to use with this motor. If anyone could confirm or deny this, that would be great info! Maybe if it is different, a chip tuner could do something about it. But for now I think this'll work.

I also will probably flip the front heater and hang it from the floor rather than the splash pan, so that it doesn't interfere with access to this area any more. I left enough room for the hoses and wires to allow it to sit on the ground, but it is still a bit of a pain.

For reference, here is the old potentiometer setup. It was mounted in a waterproof electrical box on the back frame.
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Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[vwwestyman]

Based on this thread in the Vanagon forum, I installed Chrysler Town and Country middle row Stow and Go seats in the Bus.

Initial impressions:

I previously had Eurovan seats in there, that I had attempted to cut the foam down a little bit to not sit so high. Bay seat stands seem to be a tad higher than Vanagon stands, and Eurovan seats are a bit taller than Vanagon seats. Because of that foam trimming, they just weren't as comfortable as I thought they should be.

All I had time for tonight was a very short test drive, but initially it seems like I'm sitting a tad higher than the Eurovan seats (mostly based on reaching the shifter). Not uncomfortable though.

For the passenger seat, I really, really like some of the changes. I LOVE that I can flip it down for a much more roomy feeling in the Bus. (I know I can always turn the seat around for more room, but this is a quick and easy way to do it.) It also seems to be easier to spin than the old seat. (Though I admit part of that may well be that I moved the seatbelt reel.)

Also the arm rests no longer interfere with the arm rest on the door. With the Eurovan seats (and Vanagon seats they replaced) I had to push the seat all the way toward the front when it was spun around to not have them interfere. That was a part of the whole seat-spinning routine that I am happy to not have to mess with.

Also, since this is a Bay, I have the child's cot. With the Vanagon and Eurovan seats (and possibly the Bay seats) the head rests were always in the way, so it was a thing where I had to scoot them forward, and lean them all the way back, and/or remove the headrests to install the cot. Now, I can just let 'em flip forward and they are totally out of the way. Even though the driver's seat cannot flip 100% forward (hits the steering wheel) it goes low enough to clear.
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Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[Xevin]

Those look great. I love how the arms are low profile. When we put the Vanagon seats in the 76. I hated how the arms interfere with the walk through. I couldn’t even squeeze a thigh though them. And yes spinning the passenger chair was a PITA. I whipped off the arm rests. However the Vanagon seats are way more comfy then the 76 stock seats. Just delightful. I gotta say. I like my 72 OEM seats the best. Nice job Dave.
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Keep on Busin'

[vwwestyman]

[Ride_On]

Great job! Interested to hear how these work out for you. I'm strongly tempted to source a pair to test out, though I'm a bit worried about the height of them.

I just did a quick search, but came up empty - sorry if you've covered it already, but what seatbelts are you running now?
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1977 Westfalia 2.0 FI Skills EJ25 w SubaruGears 5sp
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=687254
2018 Golf Sportwagen 4MO DSG (Dieselgated 2013 Golf Wagon TDI DSG)

[tristessa]

[danfromsyr]

to add to the electronic throttle for TDI/1.8T swaps.
there's no need to put it up in the front foot pedal area.
you can easily run the throttle pedal in the back (where the wiring is)
and fab a base plate that accepts the throttle cable with a end drilled into the DBW pedal. just make sure it's in a weather proof location or inside a weather tight box.
the leverage and foot action (spring strength) are the same feel.
you don't mess with anything up front.
I make new throttle cables from a spool of bicycle cable housing, ferrules and thin SS cable.

Edit:
teflon lined bike cable housing $1foot.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trk...p;_sacat=0
then some fine Stainless cable and ferrules for the ends.
will perform in circles, and it's all I use now adays for any VW throttle cable.
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[vwwestyman]

[vwwestyman]

With the Stow and Go seats, I was initially a little disappointed in the comfort-I simply didn't feel they were as wonderful as the Vanagon guys were reporting. My thighs were getting uncomfortable.

I had noticed that as installed in a Town and Country, the seat bases lean back quite a bit, which helps cradle you in the seat more. So I popped them out, and installed a nut as a spacer between the seat base adapter at the front bolts. This has helped quite a bit, and I may raise the front just a little more.

Original angle:

Unfortunately, the stool doesn't fit any easier, but that is no big deal. It also isn't really any more difficult to get in/out than before.

I can say it is really nice to be able to collapse the seats to quickly and easily create a more spacious feeling in the Bus. It also is nice when setting up the child's cot. No needing to futz with getting the seats in just the right position to not be in the way. And with the SnG seat facing backwards, it can be pulled out toward the back to be a bit of a step.

We have some friends staying with us for a few days. There are four kiddos, so the three boys are sleeping in the Bus. I pulled it around to the back yard.

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Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[vwwestyman]

I was doing homework in the house when the group came back a little bit ago. So I migrated out to the Bus to finish up, and the pupperses wanted to join me. I think they knew I had the heater running.

Look at these ding-dang dogs!

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Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[inhabor]

Do you still running the transmission? Mine got destroyed after 30,000 miles

The torque of this little engines is too hard on this transmissions. But let me tell you, those were the best 30,000 miles ever. Lol. I have Matt building another one with a couple more upgrades right now. I'm going to try one more time, if it doesn't work, I'm planning on throwing another tdi in the transverse position with the original tdi automatic transmission.

[vwwestyman]

I've put almost exactly 10,000 miles on the current trans (the one I installed just over a year ago). So far, so good.

What mods did the pink trans get, and what mods are you going with this time?
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Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[inhabor]

[vwwestyman]

Been a while since I've posted much on this Bus.

I did R and R the axle beam a year ago due to being super rusted out.

At that time, I also flipped my front heater fan and hung it from the floor. Big advantages are that I no longer have the weight hanging on the splash pan (though that was mitigated by installing rivnuts and using bolts to hang the pan) and if I need to drop the pan for some reason, I don't have to necessarily touch the heater. Before, it either had to kind of hang there or I had to unhook the heater or something.

Most recently, I decided to change my motor mounts. The old ones were pretty small and I was thinking were transmitting vibrations (and therefore noise) through the floor. My goal was to reduce this.

So I bought a set of mounts from a early 2000s Passat. Because they are much bigger, I had to cut up the mounting bar and reweld it to be able to 1) fit the mounts while 2) not having to lower the bar significantly.

Comparison of old mount and new. (Because the weight of the motor collapsed the opening in the old mount pretty quickly, in the past I'd filled it with rubber ala how old hot rodders used to do.)

Old mounts installed:

Bar with new mounts just sitting in it.

New mounts installed.

Passenger side:

Driver side:

Ugh, unfortunately after all that work, it is maybe just a little bit quieter, and really only at certain RPMs. I was sure that the noise was coming from the mounting system but I guess I need to look elsewhere.

In shopping for these, I found that there are different versions of this mount, some of which are hydraulic and some that aren't. I'm sure mine aren't the hydraulic version, so perhaps switching to them will help. But they're a lot more expensive! So I'm hesitant to spend all that money on the other version and not getting much result. I'd love thoughts/comment on that. I was hoping these would make some improvement, and then I'd be more comfortable spending to switch them to the "nicer" ones.
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Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[TDCTDI]

Those mounts are only designed to bear the weight of the engine. The original mounting configuration includes a central “snub” mount that is designed to keep the engine from torquing upwards during acceleration. When this snub mount is improperly adjusted, fails, or is omitted entirely, the engine lifts during acceleration & tears these mounts in half, usually ripping the upper stud out of the rubber but it can also cause the lower aluminum “cup” to fracture & fail.


While these stresses will be reversed in your configuration, the engine will still try to torque upwards while reversing or engine braking.

You need to either replicate that center snub mount, or, at the very least, wrap a chain around the mount bracket & cradle to limit the upward travel.
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Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.

[vwwestyman]

Well shit.
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Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[vwwestyman]

I may have to make some kind of limiting straps for the time being. I'm prepping the Bus to go on a road trip in a few weeks and I don't think I can add time to add/create another mount right now.

I guess I'm glad for knowing about needing that now, rather than while on the trip!
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Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[inhabor]

I did use a third mount and I happy with it.

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[vwwestyman]

I think the funny angle you're seeing is the rubber cover that came with the mount. More or less a rubber heat shield.

Here are a couple pics of it with the skirt lifted up: (Phone at angles to be able to quick get pics while not getting dirty and it's dark and I'm getting ready to go to bed.)

They are each mounted up at that angle, but the angle is the same at the top and bottom of the mount. Angle of the bar and the mount coming off the block are the same. These are the same angles the old mounts were at.

Though they don't get a straight-down squish like on the original cars.

Skills-I'll check out the front mount based on your comments tomorrow. Thanks!
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing