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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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 Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:31 am Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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Al, do you have any great formulas for estimating how much mass would need to be added? Or is this perhaps a case of the more the better?
Closer to the bar or further? Or does it matter?
I'm thinking the easiest bet might be to go to the metal supply house and buy a few chunks of the thickest stock they have (depending on how thick/wide that is) and attach one on either side of the bar, kind of in the space in front (towards the transmission) of it.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
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Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:53 am Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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Dammit man…
You have unwittingly convinced me that I need to do this to my bus.
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Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
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Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:55 am Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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| vwwestyman wrote: |
Al, do you have any great formulas for estimating how much mass would need to be added? Or is this perhaps a case of the more the better?
Closer to the bar or further? Or does it matter?
I'm thinking the easiest bet might be to go to the metal supply house and buy a few chunks of the thickest stock they have (depending on how thick/wide that is) and attach one on either side of the bar, kind of in the space in front (towards the transmission) of it. |
I don’t think that he was suggesting to add weights, I think he meant that you needed to increase the thickness of the crossmember.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
| vwwestyman wrote: |
Al, do you have any great formulas for estimating how much mass would need to be added? Or is this perhaps a case of the more the better?
Closer to the bar or further? Or does it matter?
I'm thinking the easiest bet might be to go to the metal supply house and buy a few chunks of the thickest stock they have (depending on how thick/wide that is) and attach one on either side of the bar, kind of in the space in front (towards the transmission) of it. |
I don’t think that he was suggesting to add weights, I think he meant that you needed to increase the thickness of the crossmember. |
| Alan Brase wrote: |
WESTYMAN: Good you noticed the resonance. Resonance usually occurs when the part has a natural frequency close to the vibration generator. Best path to eliminate is to increase the MASS or possibly hang something on it to change its center of mass or MOMENT.
Being a casual observer of about 1.5 centuries of auto engineering, a while back I acquired a GM Saginaw 4 speed trans. This one has a large counterweight SUSPENDED from the tailhousing. I think this trans was sold new in Chevy VEGA, a 4 cylinder shaker from the early days, if ever they occurred in the 1970's! |
Here's why I thought he meant hang something from the bar...
As soon as I read that, I remembered encountering the subframe weights. I remember removing them from time to time to get out of the way to get at parts.
Here is a pic of a B4 Passat subframe that still has the weight installed. Its the black square just to the right of center towards the top of the frame in the pic. If the subframe were installed in the car, the weight would be toward the back of the engine compartment, just in front of where the firewall meets up with the floor.
I went to the metal supply shop in town and picked up some pieces of 5/8 thick flat bar that I believe I can make a (pair of) counter weight(s) from.
I'm thinking of just welding them together to form blocks similar to the pic of the subframe, and hanging them off it towards the front of the bus, probably just on the other side of where the mounts are.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
Dammit man…
You have unwittingly convinced me that I need to do this to my bus. |
Ha ha ha Sorry!
Before you copy anything in this thread, make sure to look ahead and see if it blew up on me or something!
Generally speaking I think I've got the major stuff figured out. I've taken it on lots of enjoyable trips and now it is kind of going back and working out smaller bugs (such as this noise) or cleaning things up to make it look or function a little nicer.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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| vwwestyman wrote: |
Al, do you have any great formulas for estimating how much mass would need to be added? Or is this perhaps a case of the more the better?
Closer to the bar or further? Or does it matter?
I'm thinking the easiest bet might be to go to the metal supply house and buy a few chunks of the thickest stock they have (depending on how thick/wide that is) and attach one on either side of the bar, kind of in the space in front (towards the transmission) of it. |
Later today I'll try to take a couple pics of that Vega 4 speed counterweight. I know where it is... which is not true of a lot of my stuff.
I think DAMPING would be the easiest thing. Somehow attach some mass to the resounding part to absorb the energy. Like sandbags encased in heavy vinyl or something.
Something in there is ringing, lower frequency that a normal dinner bell, but sorta the same idea.
This is a situation common to almost every automotive drive train installation. Pretty sure some are adapting SAAB motor mounts.
(I actually just picked up a project 1982 Diesel Vanagon and it had some of these parts there. I guess I'll have to get up to speed on this myself.)
Here's the picture of this plunder showing the left 1982 spec engine carrier, two adapter brackets and one SAAB (I think) mount.
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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vwwestyman
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Joined: April 24, 2004
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Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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Here's what I bought. There are 6 of these bars, each one weighs about 3 lb 13 oz.
I figure I could do two weights with three bars each, one on each side of the mounting bar. Or I could do all 6 together on the driver side (there's more room on that side for such nonsense).
Any thoughts on which approach might be better? I could probably try experimenting with ratchet-strapping them to the bar, though that may be somewhat less conclusive because it won't be quite so rigidly attached.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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vwwestyman
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Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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Well, I believe I'm making progress on the noise.
I did a little testing with the metal chunks strapped to the bar in a couple different ways. Ended up deciding that having it all together was the best bet. So I zapped them all together to make one big 23lb chunk.
Some angle iron bracing welded to the bar and I was good to go.
The big chunk of steel is held onto the bars with a few small welds (that I can cut later) and the screw clamps. My thought is at some point in the future, when I'm not pressed for time and have to pull the bar off for some reason then I'll clean it up further and maybe come up with a better way to mount it where it's a little more removeable.
Anyway, I definitely still have noise I don't like when accelerating, but once cruising I notice that the drone that was there is significantly reduced. So, as I tell therapy clients, progress is progress!
On to other things to prep for my trip in 3 weeks.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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vwwestyman
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Joined: April 24, 2004
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Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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vwwestyman
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Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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Took a break from mechanical stuff (I replaced a ball joint and then adjusted the steering box today) to improve something else in the bus.
Decided it was time to replace the torn up screen in the pop top before I head to mosquito-laden Wisconsin in a couple weeks.
I followed the directions here:
https://campwestfalia.com/replacing-the-westfalia-tent-window-screen/
Though I differed a little bit from the instructions there-For the arch, I started stitching on the driver side, same as the start of the zipper. I had already pinned the screen to the old zipper strip from the outside, so I was able to work my way up and around the arch and stitch the new screen in that way, unzipping it as I went. I found it helpful to trim the screen close before getting too far so it wasn't in the way.
I'm happy with how it turned out. The canvas is getting a bit fragile, so I imagine a whole new tent will be in my future in a couple years, but this new screen makes it a bit nicer in the mean time.
Here you can see it was already starting to work!
Done
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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Since I will also be using Passat mounts, I have been pondering the best way to solve the mount tearing issue without having to add a third mount. I decided upon using a swaybar end link kit, kinda like this…
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/energy-suspens...lsrc=aw.ds
near each mount, to limit the upward travel.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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vwwestyman
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Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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vwwestyman
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Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:31 am Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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Continuing to do some other little things to get the Bus ready for an upcoming trip.
One thing that has driven me crazy for several years now is that the passenger side door panel's vinyl has shrunk and come unglued from the panel. And the most annoying part is the corner always got in the way of the winder. I've tried regluing it multiple times but it never holds for very long. Last time in some desperation, I attempted using white duct tape along the top edge to hold it, but that didn't work either.
Since my copilot this time will be a 10 year old, I decided to fix it once and for all. (At least until I can actually replace it and the other side with fresh new panels.)
I simply bought some close-match brown canvas, ripped the old vinyl off the panel, and glued the canvas back on. I gave it about a 2 inch overlap on the back side to help give grip to hopefully keep it from pulling.
My objective was to not look as trashy as before and to not be in the way of the winder. It's not perfect (the panel was also warped), but check and check.
Old
New, pictured last night
New, pictured this morning
I'm hoping the DIY alignment stuff I ordered shows up this afternoon and I can work on that. Then I'll need to get the new tires mounted up.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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richparker
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Joined: November 24, 2011
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Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:47 am Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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Dave, how are those Tiguan CV boots working for you? How’s the fit, finish and how are they wearing? This is an upgrade I’d like to make before I hit the road to So Cal this fall.
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vwwestyman
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Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:21 am Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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| richparker wrote: |
| Dave, how are those Tiguan CV boots working for you? How’s the fit, finish and how are they wearing? This is an upgrade I’d like to make before I hit the road to So Cal this fall. |
I currently just have one on my '73. The other three boots are something I bought from Bus Depot a couple years prior to that install-they had just been on the shelf.
So far, all 4 of the boots are doing just fine. I was pleased with the fit of the Tiguan boot when I installed it; only just slightly loose on the shaft end, and the clamp easily took care of that without any bunching or whatever. That Bus tends to be my around-town Bus and it doesn't always get driven, so the miles don't add up super fast. They probably have between 6 and 8,000 miles on them.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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richparker
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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Thanks Dave. I’m pretty sure I’m going to buy the Tiguan ones next month and get them on before our big trip. My empi ones aren’t ripped, but they are cracking. Looks like dry rot. Figured I should replace them soon and why not try the Tiguan ones.
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Alan Brase
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Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:08 am Post subject: Re: TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread |
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WRT the resonance suppressor counter weight:
I just realized Porsche added this exact thing on the 912E. Built a lousy 2088 total. (missed opportunity, in retrospect).
The counter with appears to mount with the same four bolts at the front of the trans.
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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vwwestyman
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arminyack
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vwwestyman
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