Type 4 Timing questions / is this correct?

[XPafiolis]

ok, i just retimed the engine to 27*at 3500rpm. i want to NOTE, its -12*C here where i am, so i started the motor and let it warm up. when started RPM were approx 1000-1200 and climbed to 2000 as it warmed... hint maybe?

-dropped rpm to idle (still 2000) unplugged the vac lines and re attached.
while attaching the vac lines to the cannister idle fluctuated. ESP the backside. at one point by wiggling and playing with the hose i had it drop to 1000rpm for a split second never to be found again.

-thinking those hoses (new) were leaking i tried zip ties. no dice. idle was around 1500 rpm at that point.

-tried disconnecting the elbow to the PCV valve on the breather. almost had a heart attack!! rpm skyrocketed to 6000Rpm + the second i disconnected it. instantly shoved it back on.

i fiddled with it a bit more and found enormous vacuum on the elbow going towards the manifold. plugging the PCV on the breather had no effect, plugging the hose with the elbow going to the manifold controlled the crazy rpm to idle @1500-2000 rpm. i put a hose on the PCV and i can SUCK fine but cant blow (one way it seems)

is this normal or is something backwards here?

should i consider swapping distributors? i have 3 007's 2 with points one has electronic points or something (not sure what it is)

thanks again

[raygreenwood]

A couple of things:

(1) what is the whole part # on your distributor? 007 means nothing to me. It should maybe...but I generally go by part #'s. It should say something like 022 906 205 X....the x meaning a letter code. Until you read your #...I say no...do not change the distributor.

(2) This may sound like an odd question....but I am thinking you might still have some serious advance issues inside of your dizzy.

At some point...the rear edge of the vacuum can comes very close to the wire clip/bale that holds on the oil filler cap. How far is the closest point of your vacuum advance can from the wire bale?
If its farther than 5-7mm away......then you are far too adavnced in distributor body position. This can be caused by the mechanical advance not functioning properly when you time it...causing you to "create" the advnce needed to put the 27* mark in the Vee notch...by moving the distributor body too far counterclockwise. This will cause uncontrollable idle.

(3) There should be high vacuum at the rom you are at...at the 12mm hose coming from the manifold to the PCV valve elbow.
The problem is that is should never be high enough on its own to defeat the spring and disc in the PCV...or else it pulls air in...causing the problem you have now....so that is a part of your problem. Its also a common failure with the PCV valve...because the combination of vacuum and case pressure dumps gasses into the manifold at random....meaning the ECU has no control over this.
You will notice that it dumps in righ tnext to where the MPS takes its vacuum. This seriously screws with fuel mixture at times...which is why I have gotten rid of PCV on all D-jet type 4's that I work with...and make a fixed orifice. Yes...it causes a constant enrichment....but being constant...I can adjust for it with fuel pressure or MPS.

Lets verify your advance function first. It sounds like your centrifugal advance mechanism is sticky...or might have a spring jammed or missing.
Once you have confirmed that teh adavnce mechanism is working right...then i would plug the 12mm hose to the PCV with a piece of steel or plastic rod with a 3mm hole drilled in it.

I would not just swap in another distributor. That could add a whole new set of variables. I would put your engine on TDC and pull the distributor you have. remove and clean the injection trigger points...and pull the breaker plate out and clean and grease it, then have a look at the spring plates and weights below. It would suck to pull one out and put another in...when most of them will need this anyway.

Make sure all of the vacuum ports on the TB and plenum are used or plugged.
Ray

[Wildthings]

I presume this is the distributor he is talking about:

VW 022-905-205AE, Bosch 0231 172 007/008

It is the stock distributor for a d-jet 1700 with a manual tranny.

Are you checking and setting your timing with the hoses OFF? When setting the timing at 27° BTDC at 3500+ rpms, the hoses need to be off and plugged.

[XPafiolis]

that may be the number, ill double check exact numbers tomorrow morning!

yes timing was with hoses off and plugged good.

i will also attempt to clean the distributor up a bit, i guess these things have sat for damn near 20 years if not more.

[XPafiolis]

still havent been able to time the engine, i seem to be pleagued with a dead batter now... the distributor is VW 022-905-205E, i have 2 E's and one Q...

i will try again soon
hope your all staying warm, damn near -30*C here!

[raygreenwood]

[Wildthings]

[raygreenwood]

[XPafiolis]

Hey everyone, i want to apologize for leaving you hanging in regards to the timing issues! I have not solved the problem yet, and was unfortunately called away to work for the winter. Once i get back home (may) i will be back at it trying to diagnose the high idle before i possibly do a rebuild!

I thought i would let you all know i created a post in the early bus section documenting all my progress, some of you may be interested to see the pictures, videos & progress

Thanks again for all your help! i couldn't have gotten this far without you all!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=459255&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Hope all is well!
Chris.

[amosdoodle]

Hi Chris,
You might want to check this out http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5132352&highlight=#5132352. I was having problems with fast idle.

[XPafiolis]

great post, i will definitely look into that some more... i think mine are not worn like yours but worth a double check... is it difficult to remove that brass piece? (the flapper piece)

[amosdoodle]

No its not difficult, make sure you use the right size screwdriver I think a no.1 Philip. and make sure you re peen the end of the screw when replacing it. You can do a visual check without removing it just to see if there is wear.

[Delbert27]

Good afternoon people
I need help please, my first go on a vw type 4 engine 1.8 AP code.
It started when the ol girl started to cough and splutter so got underneath her
To look for the problem, on 3 of the cylinders I could feel a blade of hot air coming from around where the heads meet the block. After reading up on this I pulled the engine replaced the gaskets, all 4, put it back together, back in the bus and now it won’t start. Engine is spinning but seems far to easily as though something is missing. I have gone through everything, timing, spark and fuel all present. Just don’t know if I’m looking at this wrongly or just had a dumb moment.
If there is anyone that can assist me it would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Del

[Wildthings]

Have you verified you are getting spark? Make sure the rotor is turning when the engine is cranked. Try swapping the wires 180° around the distributor cap.

[Delbert27]

Thanks Wildthing, I’ll give that a go