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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12744 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:49 pm Post subject: Carb/distributor combo |
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I have been running a 1600SP engine in my sand rail now off and on for a number of years. It came to me with an H30/31 carb and a 003 distributor. The engine has run ok but never really well and has been hard to keep in tune, poor in cold weather and a little gutless on the hills. No big deal as it is just a fun trail Buggy.
The engine was well used when it went in, used some oil and had too much end play so last winter I built a 1641 for it, cleaned up the ports on some very good condition SP heads, stock cam, 1.25 rockers on the intakes, full balance, and built a tri Y exhaust system. All this was to have an engine, not for making huge power but with emphasis on low end torque to putt around the back country, sight seeing and picking berries for us two old people. I wanted to be able to just roll on the throttle and torque up a hill without a lot of unnecessary wheel spin. I am using trails on land belonging to neighbors so respect for the land is important here! Ok, maybe some hunting in the fall too...
Anyway I got the engine back in last week and running and was very disappointed in the performance and once again found myself struggling with tune and timing trying to get a decent dependable idle and fighting flat spots in the power curve. Finally I gave up on the carb and cleaned up an old 30 PCIT-2. Yes! Suddenly my idle was rock solid but the flat spots and poor torque continued.
The 003 to me just didn't seem to give much advance until the rpms were far too high (no tach yet) so I yanked it, did the checking and found out that a 205M or 205T was the match for the carb. Well I had the T so cleaned up checked out and installed it today.
Wow! I had no idea there would be that much difference! This engine is everything I hoped it would be. I can start out in 3rd gear on the flat and just roll the throttle on! Smooth and just builds torque!
So, guys toss all those junk carbs and distributors you are struggling with on your stockish engines, get the real German match and don't look back! _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: Carb/distributor combo |
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What you describe above is exactly how I started restoring distributors 18 years ago.
Can't argue with any of that and you got your performance back. As I was reading I had to make some assumptions. The 003 was probably a mechanical advance only originally installed on stationary VW engines. There were several other Bosch numbered "003" distributors. By adding more of the part numbers you can narrow down just exactly which distributor you are discussing: 178 003, 163 003, 181 003. They are each very different distributors. The same applies to the VW part numbers, there is a 111 T (common in Canada), 113 T, 311 T, and several others more common outside the USA. A "205 M" could be a 111 M, 113 M, 311 M, 113 AM, and so on. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12744 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:41 am Post subject: Re: Carb/distributor combo |
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It has several umbers on it. The first is "Z42", under that is "0 231 178 003" next is "126 905 205". Pretty sure this is an industrial distributor, maybe even an agricultural one as they are somewhat common here in crop sprayers. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Carb/distributor combo |
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Any time you're using a square float bowl Solex carb, you really need to use a vacuum advance distributor. 30 PICT-2, 30PICT-3, 34PICT-3, or even H30/31PICT ALL need the appropriate distributor for each. 009 or other mechanical advance distributor may result in bogs and hesitations.
If you use a round bowl Solex carb; 28PICT or 30PICT-1, you can run a 009, 010, 050 or other non-vacuum advance distributor all year long without bogs or hesitations.
In my '58 Baja when I built the 40hp engine for my dad back in the mid-70s, I used an NOS 031 distributor, which was intended for a Porsche 356 1500cc with dual Solex 40Pii carbs. Full advance was in with that distributor at about 1500rpm. A little hard to find points for it, but dad & I used it for nearly 400K miles with no problems. The engine (1385cc with 83mm [same size as 1500] big bore cylinders and pistons, stock late 40hp heads with 3-angle valve grind, Norris 330S cam [same as Engle 100W], Full flow oil system with remote filter and cooler, 28PICT carb with extended float bowl vent and dual element offroad air cleaner, and FourTuned Tri-Y offroad headers with quiet pack muffler) made surprisingly good power,especially at low end. The car did well on 4x4 trails and also skipped from whoop top to whoop top in the desert. Out-climbed several 4x4 trucks on steep hills, and embarrassed a number of other Bajas with bigger engines. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12744 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Carb/distributor combo |
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I would not recommend this 003 for any car as is. The advance does not start until very late. Lighter springs and heavier weights might make it usable but I will not waste the time. This 205T vacuum only one is working really nice. Gobs of bottom end torque for a little engine. I'm pretty sure it would give serious competition to any big cammed up multi carb engine on a steep hill too! _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Carb/distributor combo |
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Your 178 003 is very close to a 178 009 both being German versions. You will never find a VW part number on a "009". The 003 has VW # 126 905 205 designating it as a factory issued distributor on stationary industrial engines. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12744 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:03 am Post subject: Re: Carb/distributor combo |
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Thanks, I suspected that was what it was. It's in nice shape for an old piece. I think it will make a good "limp home" spare. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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