Carb Swap 1973 Type 3 FB

[Scorpion1110]

Hello Folks-

What is the best carb swap kit for a type 3? streetable, easily tuned, and fits well under the rear cover?

I am still working on the FI, replacing hoses, etc, but was curious in case I ever decide to swap to carbs.

I understand there is a performance drop and deviation from stock, but it would tidy up the engine compartment and simplify the set-up.

Just a Plan B, FI purists

Dave

[Mike Fisher]

CB Performance sells re-jetted for VW 1600 Weber 34's with the Good linkage for a little extra money.
I like my FI & I'm keeping it!
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

[pitargue]

I'm sure everyone will say to keep your FI.

But to answer your question, why not the stock PDSIT carbs with the stock oil bath cleaner? Seems to have been perfectly fine for the factory which built carburetor cars for other markets while the US received FI.

[W1K1]

your other alternative, new EFI
http://thedubshop.com/
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap

[DQDan]

If all else fails with the FI you just go back to the 67 (?) Dual port dual carb setup with factory intake and air cleaner. It's well designed to fit under the lid and on top of your existing engine.

[Bobnotch]

[gt1953]

If you scout out the classifieds you may find all of the stock dual carb stuff. What happened for me was I scored 4 carbs and intakes, air cleaner and linkage in the classifieds. Volksbiz rebuilt carbs for me. All of the stuff works great on the squareback. I do get as mentioned 26 ~ 27 mpg.
_________________
Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.

72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold})

[Scorpion1110]

Thanks, guys for the info. I am working through the FI, but also always want a plan B. Carbs probably are overall easier to deal with.

I have been following forum advice and it's good info.

All fuel lines looked great and original but I am replacing each. When I remove them they are extremely hard and brittle. I note the replacement date in my build log. I am also getting ready to install an Airtex pump and two fuel filters.

If I have problems with the FI I may move over to carbs. But I am not at that point.

Happy Fourth everyone.

[Scorpion1110]

Quick question;

Is the FI distributor interchangeable with a carb swap? Assume a factory Solex set up. The distributor has a pertronix kit.

Thanks!

[Mike Fisher]

The FI distributor will work fine with carburetors.
Check your MPS for vacuum with FI as it's the most common problem w/FI.
I have a set of dual Solex's on a '68 engine if you want another engine in the deal?
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

[Scorpion1110]

Thanks for the help Mike.

Would I take a dressed engine if I could get to MD cost effectively? Hell ya.

One original FI and the hot rod carb set up. If you have any transport ideas I am game.

I wanted to throw this out to the forum. My T3 is far more original than I expected when I bought it (online). Far nicer too. So I find myself in this space of preservation versus fun little hot rod (which is what I like to do).

So here's my dilemma. And I know this comes up all the time I have read the posts.

I want easy. I want dependable. I want parts easy. I want more driving than troubleshooting. So while my preference would be just to leave the FI because the car is nice and original, I feel like I am going to spend a lot of time learning it and tweaking it. Plus of course, I have a stupid health issue that could come back at any time. Big C times 2 (yep)

That's why I am thinking carbs. Simplicity. Relatively easy parts availability. Fairly easy understanding and set up.

And since time is always a factor I am thinking I need to make a decision at this point rather than spend time in one area and then heading in another. I have run through the wiring and replaced some fuel hoses, but I am at the point where I need to head down a path and make a commitment.

So do I create a little hot rod and save all the parts, or do I caretake an original nice car?

I feel like carb-ing it is the easy answer. If I had bought this car 5 years ago I'd probably have more patience to learn the FI, but when I read all the posts on the topic, it seems a bit daunting. Plus I hear a lot of having to keep spares of used FI parts. And yes I also hear its a hardy system where usually the trouble spots are things like electrical connections and vacuum hoses. But that does go away with Dinosaur-Carbs.

Ok, done whining.

[nogoodwithusernames]

Hmmm, quite the situation you've got there. Too nice of a car

I'll trade you my slightly beat up '71 for you to hot rod all ya like

In all seriousness though, I've also got a 914 with D-jet that has run mostly flawlessly for the last 5ish years. All I did when I got it was new fuel lines and new vacuum lines and it starts easily, and runs well. It just recently started giving me some hesitation off idle and I've not even had time to look at it yet but my first step is going to be an overdue ignition parts tune-up, a compression check, and a couple new gaskets to make sure everything is sealed up. It really is a fairly simple system once you work on it a bit and can get your head around how it operates. Though I will admit it can be a bit of a pain to work on in the car sometimes.

If you have the time/patience I would go through your FI parts and make sure they are all correct for the ECU/year you have, and test all the components on the bench. Maybe invest in a new FI wiring harness, and definitely make sure all new vacuum lines, and run it. (Is a good idea to make sure you've got fairly equal compression all around too or it'll mess with the vacuum signal)

https://bowlsby.net/914/WiringHarnesses/
He has a lot of info regarding parts and testing on his site, though it's not the easiest to navigate.

New temp sensors are available, as well as new diaphragms for the MPS, and I think circuit boards for the TPS (at least for the 914s) so really the only thing not available "new" is the injectors themselves which seem fairly robust.
_________________
71 Squareback, 1.7l T4 w/ crank trigger fuel and spark
(Conversion thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=732508&highlight= or https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=151375&sid=f0542d44a322d290c29d6609fac7f215 )
74 914, 2.0L w/ D-Jet

-Derek

[Bobnotch]

[Scorpion1110]

Thanks Derek. Thanks Bob.

Bob, you nailed it. It's not a whats better thing (FI versus Carbs), it's what the owner can do that lets them get behind the wheel.

I recently sold a 55 Chevy wagon. I got it when I got sick and was building it for 5 years. Eventually, I felt like it was hanging over my head so I sold it. 5 years of work, but it was a weight.

When I got the VW it was to drive and have fun, tinker, change the wheels, do brakes. When I realized that the FI required some learning, I felt like the old dog who didn't want to learn any new tricks.

I am going to carefully remove the FI. Clean it, pack it, take pics. Maybe it goes back in as a retirement project. In the interim, I will carb it, and do some little hot rod touches. No body work or welding needed.

Thanks for the help, and the on-point reply. Sometimes you just have to hear it for it to make sense.

[Bobnotch]

[Scorpion1110]

I have the motor stripped. All of the FI stuff is safely packed away. The harness is out and the only thing I didn't remove was the regulator as it wasn't bothering me and I wonder if I could turn down the fuel pressure enough from the airtex fuel pump to give the carbs about 2psi. I doubt it really so I bought a K&N pump that will fit behind the shield plate with the factory mounts- maybe a little work but it looks good out of the box.

OK, now I am hot-rodding a motor I know little about. True genius.

So does anyone have any factory Solex carbs with air cleaner pics that they could post? Not sure how the air cleaner attaches to the tins where the FI AC was. Also, I have vacuum hoses coming off the breather, Dizzy, and the lower boxes as well as hoses going through the firewall. If anyone has a reference Id take it to help get those sorted.

I have a few additional questions but I will stop being a nag . Well, there is that sender with the black wire coming out of the driver side head that plugged into the FI harness. Temp sensor? Is it necessary and can it be plugged?

Thanks!

[Bobnotch]

[Scorpion1110]

Hi Bob-

I appreciate the help in navigating this. I think am starting to get it

Sounds like the main hose I need is the breather to the AC and the breather I have is two capped and it looks like I need the smaller one.

Question on the carbs; You are a fan of the ICTs. I know I have read that the Solexes can have the inlet pull out due to age and hose pressure. I want to take great care in plumbing and setting up the engine compartment to minimize fire risk, and I have read posts on this repeatedly.

Should I:

1) just go with the rebuilt Solexes and stock system (They are rebuilt by a reputable source)
2) ship the solexes off to Volksbitz and have threaded tubes inserted (site says he is pretty booked up several weeks out), or
3) go with the CB Performance dual ICT kit

Also, does the stock air cleaner get retained by the rear bracket that holds the balance tube only? And if so then does the tin threaded hold from the FI Air cleaner get plugged?

Ok three questions

[Bobnotch]

[Scorpion1110]

So the carb changeover is in mock-up phase. This did require a reload of Mich Ultra.

Some photos and random questions.

I sourced the missing tins, the bellcrank/swivel, a support for the air cleaner, and the correct oil pressure sending mount. I installed a block-off plate for the fuel pump. Cleaned everything up, glass-beaded what I could, and began mock-up.

Tins installed
manifolds and gaskets installed
carb spacer and gaskets installed
Bellcrank installed
FP block-off installed
Rear AC mount installed
and balance tube installed.

Here's what it looks like at this point:

At this point I decided to give the Air cleaner a try, and here's what happened:

Mounted air cleaner to passenger side carb- no issue

Lined it up and noticed that the rear mount tab on the air cleaner didn't align with the support. Hmmm. Placed the driver side carb extension on and:

Tightened the passenger wing nut to locate air cleaner and see I am off about 1.25 inches:

So no matter how I fiddle with it- it's just off. I suspect that I have the wrong part or the wrong mount location for the support. However I checked the support against some pics online and in the gallery and it looks right, plus its exactly where the balance tube wants it.

The carbs air cleaner and manifolds came from a quality parts vendor and the bracket looks like what I have seen. So here's my usual VW question. What am I missing?

I also suspect I will need to change the throttle cable to a 311-721-555C, 1967 year? Or will the EMPI throttle cable extender work?

Also is there a trick for pulling the oil breather and mount. I removed the 4 engine top bolts and the thing didn't move. I have a single cap to replace. I'd prefer not to take the front shroud off. Bentley was mum on the issue.

I always check before I post but this has me stumped.

thx, Dave