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shadetreemech
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Joined: October 05, 2005
Posts: 777
Location: Claremont, CA
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 Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:47 pm Post subject: Crack in the Case meet Devcon Titanium Putty |
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I posted a Trip Report to Escalante-Grand Staircase in March this year including an account of how I managed to crack the engine case.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=751966&highlight=
After waiting 3 months for the Devcon Titanium Putty to arrive from Estonia, I was involved in other projects. The new sprinkler system is watering the white clover seed in the front yard as I write.
I had previously pulled off the alternator, power steering pump and intake components. Today I pulled off the exhaust manifolds and the head. Here's where I'm at:
The case:
The crack's about 3" long horizontally and surrounds that corner of the case
What I'm gonna use on my Dremel tool to grind a "V" front and back:
What I'm gonna use to fill the valleys:
So, what do you think about that?
Dan
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'84 GL 1.9
'01 Volvo V70 T5
'88 Westy - "MZDRTHY" |
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DanHoug
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Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4752
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Crack in the Case meet Devcon Titanium Putty |
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i've wanted that Devcon stuff to try out too! spendy but higher specs than JB Weld.
any chance you can get someone with a TIG welder to stitch up those cracked first? even if they couldn't make water tight, it would add strength then a finish for water/pressure sealing with Devcon. any roughage at the gasket sealing area could be hand filed down.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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shadetreemech
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2005
Posts: 777
Location: Claremont, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Crack in the Case meet Devcon Titanium Putty |
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This repair is totally experimental. I'm leaving the engine in the van, using only the Devcon Ti. Here's the specs & a link:
Devcon Titanium Putty
Description
High-performance, non-rusting titanium-reinforced epoxy engineered for making repairs to machinery and equipment that can be precision machined. Withstands heavy loads in hard chemical environments.
Key Features
Excellent temperature resistance (350°F)
High compressive strength (15,200 psi)
Resistance to chemicals and most acids, bases, solvents, and alkalis
Qualifies under Mil Spec MIL-PRF-24176C, Type I
Listed under NSN stock #8030-01-335-0562
Open Time: 21 Minutes
Gap Fill: .0625" - .075"
Color: Grey
https://itwperformancepolymers.com/products/devcon/corrosion-erosion-repair/devcon-titanium-putty
I'm looking at grinding a valley about1/4- 5/16" wide inside and out and drilling 1/8" holes all the way through every 1" or so. I'll fill the holes with putty to connect the valleys on both sides.
The Titanium putty goes for about $125 a pound. I found a distributor selling it for $85. Turns out it was in Estonia and took a slow boat gettin' to me.
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'84 GL 1.9
'01 Volvo V70 T5
'88 Westy - "MZDRTHY" |
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AndyBees
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Joined: January 31, 2008
Posts: 2325
Location: Southeast Kentucky
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Crack in the Case meet Devcon Titanium Putty |
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Subscribed ...
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'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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mikemtnbike
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Joined: March 26, 2015
Posts: 2794
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Crack in the Case meet Devcon Titanium Putty |
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Since it’s an experiment, super interesting. My one thought is I’d be really worried about the dremel getting out of control. Those bits look sharp and much harder than the case. Light touch!
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1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled  https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual |
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dhaavers
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 7752
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Crack in the Case meet Devcon Titanium Putty |
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Sorry, I'm sceptical. Cracks are cracks, glue is glue, differential expansion is real.
Best wishes, certainly. I'll be here with my popcorn...
- Dave
_________________
86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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AndyBees
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Joined: January 31, 2008
Posts: 2325
Location: Southeast Kentucky
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Crack in the Case meet Devcon Titanium Putty |
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While a friend of mine was sawing with his Woodmizer Sawmill, the governor rod broke allowing the Two-cylinder Kohler Engine to rev and brake a rod. The aluminum case was cracked open.
Long story short, while waiting on parts, he cleaned up the mess and patched the hole with JB Weld. That was in the fall of 2000. He was still using the saw and engine 17 years later (with no oil leaks) at his untimely death.
So, if done properly, I believe the OPs fix will be just fine!
After cleaning, grinding, etc., I'd hammer, press, etc., the piece back as close as possible to the original position ...... and, as someone suggested, maybe some tacking here and there with a Tig Welder for added strength.
_________________
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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Steve M.
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Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6815
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Crack in the Case meet Devcon Titanium Putty |
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You know about drilling a hole at the end of each crack to stop them from continueing?
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This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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Steve M.
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Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6815
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: Crack in the Case meet Devcon Titanium Putty |
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| shadetreemech wrote: |
I
The case:
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I think the sealant will work to seal the cracks. I sometimes use a product called "Bellzona" which is also a high dollar epoxy. The epoxies work if applied to super clean surfaces so that the epoxy adheres to the bare metal and not a cleaning solution used to clean left on the surface of the metal.
Another thing I would recommend is to make small tabs of aluminum that are small to fit into the areas and shaped to fit, but big enough the reach across the crack. They would need to be long enough so that you could drill holes for small #4 size machine screws/bolts.
Machine screws because of the high thread count giving maximum strength in the shortest length.
You use them to straddle the crack and use them to hold the metal together so that
It does not open or widen during normal expansion from heat or vibration stress. This gives the epoxy seal a better chance at holding it all together.
I've been doing this for years on cracks in metal, pvc pipework and anywhere I had to repair a part that had to seal with a liquid inside it. It's always worked for me.
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This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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shadetreemech
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2005
Posts: 777
Location: Claremont, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Crack in the Case meet Devcon Titanium Putty |
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| Steve M. wrote: |
I think the sealant will work to seal the cracks. I sometimes use a product called "Bellzona" which is also a high dollar epoxy. The epoxies work if applied to super clean surfaces so that the epoxy adheres to the bare metal and not a cleaning solution used to clean left on the surface of the metal.
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I had intended to use Brakleen as a cleaner for the case. Upon reflection, I've popped for Devcon's Cleaner Blend 300:
https://www.chemical-concepts.com/devconr-cleaner-blend-300-1-pt.html
"Cleaner degreaser agent used to remove oils, grease, dirt and dust from metal surfaces before using any Devcon products. Safe, multi-purpose degreaser for use on heavy grease and oil deposits on metal.
KEY FEATURES
• Needs no rinsing; leaves no residue
• Evaporates fast
• Ideal for dip tanks
Intended uses
- Any metal surfaces, alloys and porous castings
- Used on rubber surfaces, plastics, wood and concrete surfaces
- Removes dirt, oil, tar, and grease
Physical Properties:
Cured in 7 days @ 75°F
Flashpoint 105° F"
I got a better price on Amazon.
_________________
'84 GL 1.9
'01 Volvo V70 T5
'88 Westy - "MZDRTHY" |
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4752
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Crack in the Case meet Devcon Titanium Putty |
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i wonder what 'cured in 7 days' means for a solvent? or is that a line from the Devcon epoxy that got slipped into their product literature?
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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hardway
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Joined: January 03, 2012
Posts: 415
Location: Fidalgo Island
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Crack in the Case meet Devcon Titanium Putty |
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| Have you considered using dowels like roll pins or screws to provide mechanical reinforcement? Also, if the repair is successful, how will you support the alternator? In order to increase the odds of success you should be thinking like a dentist doing reconstructive work. |
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shadetreemech
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2005
Posts: 777
Location: Claremont, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Crack in the Case meet Devcon Titanium Putty |
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[quote="hardway"]Have you considered using dowels like roll pins or screws to provide mechanical reinforcement? Also, if the repair is successful, how will you support the alternator? In order to increase the odds of success you should be thinking like a dentist doing reconstructive work.[/quote|
I did think about aluminum pins or somethin'. Screws have been suggested. Still thinkin' about it.
As soon as we got back from Utah with the Van, I bought the Alternator Bracket Kit from GoWesty. It's still in the box. There's a few ideas floatin' around out here on solving the Bracket Problem.
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'84 GL 1.9
'01 Volvo V70 T5
'88 Westy - "MZDRTHY" |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32562
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Steve M.
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Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6815
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Crack in the Case meet Devcon Titanium Putty |
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| DanHoug wrote: |
| i wonder what 'cured in 7 days' means for a solvent? or is that a line from the Devcon epoxy that got slipped into their product literature? |
That does peak the curiousity! Read the ingredients carefully and get the MSDS for it.I was a big user of the Brakecleaners until I got some of the original report written by the EPA on it that was 700 pages long. The politics game cut the report to 300 pages leaving out all the bad parts like one whiff of it can damage a fetus if your pregnant, etc., etc. Your not pregnant are ya?
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pdm777
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Joined: August 06, 2012
Posts: 348
Location: Clovis, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Crack in the Case meet Devcon Titanium Putty |
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5 minute epoxy is much weaker than
the 24 hr cure premium stuff.
I never use 5 minute, unless it's
on an unstressed part and I'm out
of JB Weld.
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djkeev
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pdm777
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Joined: August 06, 2012
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Location: Clovis, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Time to Get This Experiment Started.
OP, please post pics of your progress!
('')
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djkeev
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Abscate
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Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:15 am Post subject: Re: Crack in the Case meet Devcon Titanium Putty |
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| Steve M. wrote: |
| You know about drilling a hole at the end of each crack to stop them from continueing? |
That will be critical here, and the hard part will be finding the end of the crack inside
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