1967-1969 wiring harness question can it be fixed?

[modelsinc1967]

Good afternoon, I have a 1967 beetle body on a 1969 pan, 1971 transaxle and 12 volt starter and 12volt alternator. I just bought and put an engine in the car. I know the person before me that I bought it from was not very good at what he was doing. There are no wires to the starter solenoid and when I tried to figure out if I had all the wires to the engine could not get it to start. In fact there are no wires to the volt regulator either. I am thinking I may want to get a main wire loom so I know I have all the wires to the engine. My question however is being it has the 12 volt set up would I need to get a 1971 beetle wire loom in order to get the 12 wiring for the starter, alternator, and 12 volt voltage regulator?

I am at a lose right now. Mainly because I am so new to the vw game. I have uploaded some photos if that would help. The wires in the engine compartment have been spliced many times and I am not sure if they are all there. That was why I thought I should just get a wire loom. However I am pretty sure If I get the stock wire loom for 1967/1969 it will be for 6 volt. But if I go 1971 and higher it will be for 12 volt but will it have more wires than I would need? any help would be appreciated. Also another question I have. If I buy the main wire loom will it have the wires that go to the solenoid? Or is that something totally different?

[HarrysRatBug]

Late 67/69 were 12 volt!

[mukluk]

1) All USA market Beetles were 12v from the 1967 model onwards. Even if you installed a 6v wiring harness, that wouldn't be a bad thing since the wires are generally heavier gauge than those for a 12v system.
2) Your alternator is likely an internally regulated one. As such, there wouldn't be any reason to fully wire in an external regulator. Post up pictures of the alternator to help determine what kind you have.
3) It would help if you could trace the wires which aren't connected to see what, if anything, they're connected to at the other end. If that isn't possible, at least note the colour coding of the wire insulation and back up/widen the angle of your pictures so we can get a better idea of what we're looking at.
4) What wires do you have present under the car, near the starter?
_________________
1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga"

[modelsinc1967]

[modelsinc1967]

[61SNRF]

You can ignore the fact that it has a 69 pan and 71 trans. The main thing is it's a 67 body.

That means the best replacement wire harness would be for a US 67. It will have all the proper wiring terminals for the lights, starter and ignition.

Since a US 67 has a Generator (GEN) it also has the Voltage Regulator (VR) mounted under the back seat. The one work around you'll have to do to use the Alternator (ALT) with built in VR is bypass those wires, otherwise everything else is the same.

Once you have the harness, essentially all you have to do is delete the stand alone VR under the back seat. You would have to do this on any harness except late '74.

Under the rear seat you'll have a large red wire coming from the engine side where it connects to the ALT D+ terminal. It will have a 3/8" female spade connector for the old VR D+. It will also have a large spade terminal/big red wire off the VR B+ that goes forward to the Headlight switch. You need to connect these two wires together as well as adding a third that runs across the tunnel with a 5/16" ring terminal onto B+.
Connecting the three big wires together with a good connection is your biggest challenge.

Lastly splice the two smaller warning light wires together, that is the green one from engine side which connects to ALT/VR DF to terminal 61 Blue one that goes forward to warning light in Speedo.
With these exceptions you can wire it just as a 67 wire diagrams shows...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bug67.jpg

For the turn signals and Hazard lights to work properly you'll need a 9-pin relay...
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=211953227BWW
_________________
-Bruce

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[modelsinc1967]

[61SNRF]

Good news!

In the mean time The Samba is an awesome resource for you to learn about your new car.
From the title bar on top of the home screen, click on Gallery and from the drop down menu select Search.
Use words like "Starter wiring", Ignition switch wiring, engine wiring etc and you can find examples that might help you out.

From the Technical tab, click on Wiring Diagrams, Type 1, 1967 USA and you'll find several versions.
In the drop down also check out the many resources such as Owner's manuals, literature, accessories etc.

In this forum for sure check out the Stickys/FAQ's for lots of common topics.

Another thing you can do is go to the Wolfsburg West home page to view a virtual Beetle parts catalog that has very helpful drawings and year specific tips for your review.

Best of luck above all have fun👍
_________________
-Bruce

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[ashman40]

You mentioned taking the starter out of the transmission to have it tested?? The ACVW manual transmission starter pinion gear is supported on one end by a bearing inside the starter; on the other end it is supported by a bushing in the transmission. To test the starter outside the transmission you will need a jig to support the exposed end of the pinion gear in place of the transmission bushing. Most FLAPS will probably not be equipped for this type of testing. Autostick transmissions did not use a transmission bushing. The starter came with two internal bearings. Don't be surprised if the place you took your starter to cannot properly test it.

Found a pic from Rob & Dave's site that may help you with your starter wiring:

There are only two connections you need to make at the starter solenoid. The stud marked "Battery connection" is where the positive battery cable is connected. The other end of this cable goes to the positive post on the battery. The battery cable passes thru a hole in the floor pan just rear of the battery.

The red wire labeled "Ignition wire connection" is circuit #50 and comes from the ignition switch. When the key is turned to the START position, this wire has 12v+. This wire comes from the front trunk area; runs inside the main harness along floor pan at the left heater channel. The wire pops out from the harness near the VR under the left rear seat. Normally, there will be a junction below the left rear seat just before the wire exits along the center tunnel. Look for the single steel brake line running along the left side of the center tunnel. Where that steel lines passes thru the pan/firewall you should find another hole where this starter solenoid wire passes thru. Here is a pic from the gallery showing the red #50 wires disconnected from each other and the 2-way junction that normally connects the wires together. You can see the red wire runs thru a (black) sleeve as it passed thru the hole in the pan, just below the brake line.

Optional: Often found on buggy wiring... the B+ output (threaded stud) of the alternator is meant to be connected to a junction between the battery positive terminal and the main #30 wire running to the front of the car. This junction is normally below the left rear seat.
An easy workaround is to run the B+ wire from the alternator to the stud on the starter solenoid where the battery cable connects. This is a shorter run and easier to route the wire. The black wire in you pic which appears to be down near the starter... it wasn't clear if this wire came from the alternator or somewhere else. It appears to have a large ring terminal meant to be connected at the battery cable stud on the starter solenoid?


Honestly, the wire connects in your pics don't look all that bad. Many are cleanly/neatly linked with heat shrink tubing. Sure there are many splices and the wires are not the correct colors. But the splices look to be okay quality and I don't see a bunch of electrical tape and wire nuts (common hacks). The "rat's nest" mess of wires in the trunk is actually the OE VW wires. They were never neat.
You might want to consider just cleaning up the wires you already have. If necessary, replace any questionable or bad segments.
Even the #50 starter wire can be run new from end to end. It would just run you the cost of the wire (using the correct wire gauge) and some time/effort.
I would also suggest you consider adding a Hard Start Relay (HSR) below the rear seat. It will extend the life of your ignition switch. If you run an all new #50 wire and use an HSR the wire from the ignition switch to the relay does not need to be as thick. The relay only requires a small wire (16AWG is fine). This could save you $$ as thicker wire is more expensive per foot. You will still need the proper wire gauge between the relay and the starter solenoid, but that wire length will only be about a meter.


Post a pic of your ignition switch wires looking up from below the steering column. There should be at least 4 or 5 wires soldered to the electrical part of the ignition switch. If the wires have been cut, you may need to install a new ignition switch, or at least splice in new wires. Successfully re-soldering wires to the stock ignition switch is rather difficult as the wires are thick.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[modelsinc1967]

[61SNRF]

So yeah, you have something of a mish mash VW that might even challenge the more experienced!

Your last question. All 1967-73.5 Beetles made for USA market will have the VR under the back seat.

If not...
...it is an Other market basic 1200 or 1300 (body in your case) car...
....or its not a 67 body at all as you've been told. At this point beginning to wonder...

I thought you had decided on a replacement harness?

One thing no matter what, that is not a stock speedometer in your latest photos so there will have to be some wiring mods done to accommodate that.

The new pictures also show your ignition switch wiring is all wrong, the wire gauge size, the terminal sizes and crimps are all undersized or sub-standard. The big red wire shown laying loose looks like the main 12v wire coming from the rear, if correct it should be connected to terminal 30 of either on the headlight switch or ignition switch.

My $0.02...
Can it all be fixed?
Yes, but one would need a good basic understanding and working knowledge of automobile primary wiring and electronics.
Without those essentials you will face an uphill challenge trying to fix it all back to working.
_________________
-Bruce

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[ashman40]

[johnnyvw164]

Quote; One thing no matter what, that is not a stock speedometer in your latest photos so there will have to be some wiring mods done to accommodate that.

Yeah, that looks like a 912 or 914 tach/speedo combo. I ran one on a super beetle I had long ago, and have a 914 combo to put into my current Beetle.

To the OP...if you don't have a VOM (volt/ohm meter), get one, as well as a good diagram for a 76. You're going to need to just start tracing out all the wires and see what's what. Think of this as a good education in vehicle electrical systems

[ashman40]

[modelsinc1967]

Gentlemen, I want to thank all of you that helped me. I finally got it to start up, and found out as well my starter was not very good either. Also did not need the wiring harness, kinda glad I did not spend the money. Whoo hooo.. Thanks again I really appreciate it. It feels good to finally figure out what I was doing wrong. Could not have done it without all your inputs......

[ashman40]

If you would, please detail what you did to fix your problem(s). This helps the next person who comes across your original post above and is interested in the fix because they have the same (or similar) problem.

This site works so well because folks post solutions to the problems listed. Lots of good suggestions above, but we don't know which one solved your issues.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[modelsinc1967]

[HarrysRatBug]

Or put a different fusebox in!

[ashman40]

[Michael Ambrozik]

Is it maybe a 66' body as they ran 8 fuse boxes. Can we get a picture of the outside of the body.