Panchito question

[Danny604]

I have been debating on different engine plans for my beetle, for what feels like forever. But have finally decided to build a 2054, I have read good things about the panchitos and have decided to go that route.
So far I have:
-AS41 dual relief used case
-74mm cast counterweighted crank
-94mm piston and cylinder set
-5.394 I beam rods
-FK-7 and 1.4:1 rockers, going to swap this for an FK-8
-Engle lifters
-Cromoly push rods
-Weber 44IDF’s
- 1 5/8 sidewinder
-lightweight flywheel
-1700LB pressure plate and new clutch
-All tins and doghouse setup

2 questions:
1- Anyone see any issues with the above setup
2- Running .040 deck height with the panchitos 57cc chamber give a compression ratio of 9:1 (according to online calculator) CB shows 161cfm with this chamber size. They also show it with a 61cc CNC’d chamber which lowers compression to 8.5:1 but increases are volume to 171cfm. So my question is which would make more power, or which is better, Higher compression or higher air volume?

[Alstrup]

DEFINITELY go with the CNC chamber and then have the heads flycut to the volume you need. And I would go 9,5 cr for medium fuel (90 US)
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993

[madmike]

Cast crank ?
_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"

[Danny604]

[Danny604]

[txoval]

9:1 - 9.5:1 is recommended range for that cam

As Alstrup said, CB will flycut the heads to any cc you want. Go for the CNC chambers and calculate what cc you need to get 9.5:1.

Upgrade to titanium retainers and use HD aluminum pushrods

Also, if you can wait a few weeks, don’t buy the 1.4 rockers. I have a new set from CB that I could make you a deal on.

[74 Thing]

[Alstrup]

[vwracerdave]

With the cast crank I'd leave the FK-7 and run 8.0-8.25 compression.

I feel the limit for cast cranks are about 100 HP. I've built a 1756 & 1835 engines with cast cranks that were under 100 HP and both survived a very long life. I build a 2007 & 2020 engine with cast cranks that were more than 100 HP. I broke both of them.

If you had a forged crank I'd agree with the FK-8 suggestions.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63

Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos

[mark tucker]

my scat casy 78.8 crank had probably 15000 miles still std, @ 10.4-11. cr in 2 diferent cases&cc'c 1st 1874 with 11.&fk8 then lowered to 10.5,for 3 years of daily fun then into the 2028 @10.4 for 10 years of daily fun. but it was a cheep crank as we were a scat dealer and I didnt even know if I would like driving a vw... yup my first build. built like a performance V8.NO EFFING VW COMIC BOOK'S INVOLVED!. it was under carbed with the single then duel bugsprays, but the duel 44 hpms's fixed that. I would however if eye were you put a 82mm 4130 crank in yours and go for the 9.5~10.0 cr and the pan of cheetos heads.(and the B pistons too)

[Danny604]

[Alstrup]

You can go as large as you want, within reason, so 2275 or 2332 are the paractical large sizes.
Stanard 44 IDF´s will support 170 hp without too many fights.
That said. IMHO the Panchito´s have outlived themselves by 2165 cc. If you want power with these heads and more displacement you need ridiculesly high duration cams with moderate lift, such as f.i. the CB 2300 w. 1,25 rockers. Not my cuppa tea.
If you decide to go 2275 which is a "relatively" easy engine to build I would go for at least a set of Tims stage II or maybe a set of CB CNC oval ports which imo is a much overlooked street head. I have pulled very nice power and massive torque with these heads both in the old an especially in the new version. These heads are almost designed for the Web 86b cam.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993

[vwracerdave]

44 IDF's
CNC Panchito heads
FK-8 w/1.4 rockers
1 5/8" exhaust.
5.394 I-beam rods

Using all the parts on your list, I'd consider a 2180. The TW 92's will last longer and run cooler then the 94's. That will make an awesome street car in the 165 HP range and will be a blast to drive. You could build a 2276 but I see no point in stretching things to the limit just for 10 more HP.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63

Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos

[Danny604]

Ive been pondering options for the last couple weeks and made an inventory of what I have. The combo below allows me to use the majority of parts I already have, minus heads (which i already needed) and crank

-74MM CB counterweight crank
-94mm AA PC set
-5.394 Chromoly forged rods
-Engle Lifters
-Engle FK8
-Chromoly push rods
-1.4:1 AA rockers
-Tims stage 2 plus, 42x37.5
-44IDF
-1 5/8 sidewinder
-1.5qt sump
-9.5:1 compression

Suggestions or thoughts?

[Danny604]

This is going into a beetle that I drive 3-4 days a week including commuting to work. 70% city, 25% short highway trips, 5% longer highway trips. No racing planned, maybe the odd friday night but not looking to build anything geared around that

[FreeBug]

I want to use beehive valve-springs on my next evolution. It would be a cherry on top of yours.

[Ohio Tom]

With that cam, target 8.0/1 CR.
If you go into the 9's, you may have overheating issues.
The Panchito is a great choice.
Agreed with getting the CNC chambers. Worth the extra flow.
Will more than make up for the loss in compression.

I have built alot of 1776-1915cc motors with Panchito heads and mild cam lately.
They have power everywhere and run cool.