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Fenian Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2021 Posts: 42 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:28 am Post subject: Scintilla Magneto plugs question |
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I have a F engine in my late model Beetle that has a Scintilla Magneto in place of the usual distributor set-up. However, the engine dies after it gets even slightly warm. I've read that this can be a sign of a failing magneto, so I have considered swapping it out for a regular vacuum advance style distributor.
The issue I'm having is the removal of the magneto plugs from the heads - I've never seen plugs like this before - there seems to be a two-part construction to them - one screwed into the head and one which screws into that. And I'm having a hard time getting the ones in the head loose. It's a 24mm long socket, but they won't budge.
Does anyone know if industrial engines had different heads to handle different plugs and magnetos?
Any ideas or advice?
Thanks!
Fen
Here are some images:
This is what I'm planning to pout in place of the magneto. The current carb is a Solex 30 Pict-2 - but I also have the solex 34 PICT-3 below.
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Scintilla Magneto plugs question |
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Those are radio shielded plugs and wires, the part you removed is just the wire and it's connection. The part still in the head should unscrew like a normal spark plug, but if they have been in there a long time, or are overtorqued they may put up a fight. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Слава Україні! |
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Fenian Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2021 Posts: 42 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Scintilla Magneto plugs question |
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Thanks, man! That warms the cockles of my heart. I thought I’d have to drop the motor and remove the heads… I’ll give them all a nice drink of WD40 and try again tomorrow 👍 |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Scintilla Magneto plugs question |
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Here's what your enemy looks like out of the engine:
_________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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Fenian Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2021 Posts: 42 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:25 am Post subject: Re: Scintilla Magneto plugs question |
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Thanks, man!
They were 21mm and came out this morning, along with the Scintilla Magneto, which I will most likely sell.
As someone had butchered the wiring before I got my chance to do it I'll need to trace and track the ignition wires. The + wire to the coil now appears to be red and connected to the auto-choke, which is driven by the ignition switch - so I reckon I can just splice it and dice it to connect to the coil.
The SVDA Bosch distributor dropped right in, much to my surprise (I've had struggles with an old Series IIa Land Rover in the past... VW markings are much more civilised
Just need some plug wires and I'll check for static timing and see how far I get with the 30 Pict-2. I have another intake manifold and a 34 pict-3 I can try if I'm not happy with the old 30 pict carb.
Thanks again for your help! |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15987 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Scintilla Magneto plugs question |
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Fenian wrote: |
The SVDA Bosch distributor dropped right in, much to my surprise (I've had struggles with an old Series IIa Land Rover in the past... VW markings are much more civilised
Just need some plug wires and I'll check for static timing and see how far I get with the 30 Pict-2. I have another intake manifold and a 34 pict-3 I can try if I'm not happy with the old 30 pict carb. |
Depending on the code stamped into your 30Pict-2 carb, it may or may not work with your distributor. The SVDA distributors (small diameter vacuum canister) like shown above need more vacuum (14-20inHg) than th earlier SVA distributors to fully advance. It gets this vacuum from the ported vacuum opening just above the throttle plate. Some models of 30Pict-2 carbs came with SVA distributors which use venturi vacuum (~5inHg) to fully advance. The left side port for these carbs are connected to the venturi for their vacuum signal. As you might guess connecting your SVDA distributor to a carb designed for a low vacuum SVA distributor would mean it will not advance much at all.
Here is glutamodo's table on the different models of 30Pict carbs.
The Autostick models that came with 30Pict-2 carbs used the VW 113-905-205P or 205AA SVDA distributors. If your 30Pict-2 carb base flange# matches these Autostick models (base flange "VW 167-1", -2 or -3) then they should work fine with your SVDA distributor. If it is any of the other 30Pict-2 models used with SVA distributors, it will likely not produce enough vacuum from the left side port of the carb to work with an SVDA distributor. Your distributor will still advance the timing like any other mechanical advance distributor but it will not provide the advantages of an SVDA distributor's vacuum advance.
The H30/31 carb came with an extra vacuum port specifically to support ported vacuum. If your carb has a "D" port as pictured below, test it for vacuum and see it if it ported vacuum. Ported vacuum will not have vacuum at warmed up idle when the throttle plate is fully closed. But as soon as the throttle is opened even a little, ported vacuum acts like intake vacuum and varies with engine load. At 1500rpm, with the throttle mostly closed, you should see vacuum levels as high as 12-20inHg. This level of vacuum will fully activate an SVDA vacuum canister. If you only ever see a max vacuum of around 8inHG, your SVDA distributor will never fully advance via vacuum from this port.
_________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Fenian Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2021 Posts: 42 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Scintilla Magneto plugs question |
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Unfortunately there are no numbers stamped on the flange.
I’ll see how she responds and then decide if I need to get a more basic distributor or use my other intake manifold for the 34 PICT-3. I’ll probably switch to electronic ignition anyway 🤷♂️.
Thank for sharing your knowledge!
Fen |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26325 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Scintilla Magneto plugs question |
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I don't think the 30PICT-2 ever made it into the aftermarket, all of them should be German with a modification state number on them. I mean, I once saw a Japan made carb that was a copy of the 30PICT-3 but was stamped 30PICT 2-3, but it was not PICT-2.
I don't care for the PICT-2 anyway. _________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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Fenian Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2021 Posts: 42 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Scintilla Magneto plugs question |
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The only numbers apart from the name of the model are on a little tag on one of the screws. It reads: 211 129 027 SX. 🤷♂️ |
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Fenian Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2021 Posts: 42 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:42 am Post subject: Re: Scintilla Magneto plugs question |
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So, to cut a long story short the car fires up great with the SVDA and the 30 Pict carb but dies shortly thereafter. I'm going to bite the bullet and I have ordered a proper 009 dizzy to replace the SVDA that came as a spare with the car.
I was going to fit a different intake manifold, but the spare that came with the car is a different size and won't fit the F series engine. Must be from a 1600 or something a little bigger...
I've also had to order a new choke element for the carb. Looks like it might have been an original choke and it isn't responding once the car heats up.
Lots of learning curves on this car, which I like, but it's all quite straightforward stuff so far.
Thanks to everyone who has been helping me out so far!
Cheers!
Fen |
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