Pop Out Window Restoration

[Thompson2]

[livingskies]

After connecting three of six frames to the hinges today, I can confirm that it's a (insert choice nasty words here) of a job. Getting the weatherstrip into the channel around the window frame and around the opening in the bus is easy. But to attach the windows to the hinges requires lots of strategies and persistence. Progressively shorter screws and clamps helped. So far, none of the windows are completely closed, and the closing mechanisms are not yet attached.

Unfortunately, when installed properly, the seals all lean strongly inwards, instead of outwards. One of the six seals had a West Coast Metric label on it, and all are the same; not sure how those compare to others on the market.

The screws/bolts ordered from Britain to secure the window hinges to the hinges (the Canadian suppliers did not appear to have them) also are not even close to the right size - they are much too small. So, no option but to rely on the stock of small fasteners from other restoration projects - cutting to length, and relying on the tap and die set to make things fit.

Working on an easier way to do the remaining three. Has anyone tried wrapping something thin - like tape or strap material - tightly around the window with the seal installed (with the seal pressed outward into a more compliant position)? Still working on that idea and others.

In summary, just another day in restoration work.

[livingskies]

Update -

Went out to the garage this evening to try the tape idea on window number four. First, ten minutes spent taping the seal, using strips of electrical tape, to the glass so that the seal angles outward and reduces the diameter of the window seal. 3/4 inch wide strips of paper over the paint to protect that, with no tape protruding inside the window area to damage the paint there.

After taping, the window fit easily into the opening without using any clamps or progressively shorter screws or other tricks. The holes in the hinges and the window frames lined up perfectly. Five minutes later, a tap was run through the screw holes to clean up the threads and the window was installed completely in place with all five screws tightened down. Wish that I had thought of this sooner. Maybe this will help someone else.

The tape should be easy to remove - I may leave it on for a bit to help train the seal.

[BonTonRoulet]

I "wire brushed rattle can Krylon restored" 4 of the 6 pop out windows in my 66 bus back in 1994. Used WCM rubber at that time. Wound up having to drill out a few of the screws that hold the frames together around the glass. Sourced a box of 100 "Brighton-Best 6/32 x 1/4 Alloy Socket head cap screws flat head part no. 2110311C" as they have the countersunk heads and go in the frames like butter with an allen wrench after tapping the frames for 6-32. Tapped the frame to hinge holes and used them to secure them to my bus as well. A LOT easier dealing with a small allen wrench than a flat head screwdriver on the old soft screws. The windows with the new rubbers were a tight fit but did manage to open and close ok.

Then the bus sat outside for the next 21 years, followed by 5 years inside. Which brings us to today.

I'm happy to say that even though the old rattle can Krylon paint didn't fair so well, the rubber seals did their job and sealed the windows up so well I had to use a hard nylon RC model airplane propeller to slip around the seals to break their long grip from the body of my bus. Required several firm bumps with the heel of my hand to finally break them loose and actually pop out. A wipe down of the old seals with Sil-Glyde and the seals were just like new, and they are still a tight fit in the bus.

[livingskies]

Another update on installing the six pop out windows. All six are in now. The last three took about one-third of the time of the first three. Pulling the seal partly into position using electrical tape that is easily removed made a huge difference.

For fear of breaking something, five of the six windows still are not completely closed. The one that is closed was taped the most heavily. The tape came off easily once the window was closed, and I have not tried opening it again. Hoping that the seals will take on a proper set in time. The latches are installed, and there is no rush to close the others completely. I may crank up the heat in the garage to hot summer temps for a while before trying to close them.

We have also used lubricant, but I have avoided using Sil-glyde or any other silicone product as there still is paint work to finish. Nothing can ruin a paint job more effectively than silicone in the area.

I wonder what the factory workers did to install the original pop outs? For one thing, the original seals they used likely had a profile that did not work against the installation. And the windows likely opened and closed without major effort once installed. Wishing that the seal manufacturers and vendors would pay attention.

Also a comment regarding the reproduction pop out frames. Four of the pop outs are new - "anodized" aluminum from one of the suppliers. Two are original steel frames. Now that I have worked with both the steel and aluminum frames, I must say that the steel frames have their advantages. Even slight pressure on the latch flexes the aluminum frames to a frightening degree. The steel frames appear much more robust. Also, the description says that the aluminum frames are anodized, which also means that paint should adhere well. It's not so, even with extra prep steps.

In contrast to pop out frustration, installation of the windshields went well, requiring only a few minutes to pop each one in. The seals could not have worked better. They are marked "VEWIB" and appear to be of German manufacture. 3/16" nylon rope and aerosol can type window cleaner as lubricant worked like a charm. Installation of the three windows on each door along with all new seals also went reasonably well

[mandraks]

[livingskies]

VEWIB does appear to make good stuff. The brake line kits that I installed in the '63 bug and the '62 single cab came from them. After those great experiences, I wouldn't use anything else if they are available. Just waited a month or so for the supplier to restock the VEWIB metal line set for the '64 - arrived yesterday. When working in tight spots under a vehicle where pre-bent lines do not work, it is so nice to work with lines that don't require bending tools and can be bent by hand without kinking. And teflon coated for corrosion protection.

[FreddyWanKenobi]

Any idea where I could find a 4mm long screws? Will 3mm long work?

[obus]

these?
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=N109051

or these?
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=N108661X

or these?
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=N141212

I suck at measurements so not sure but maybe these will work
_________________
July 1959 Mango Standard Bus aka Obus L346 L347 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=256592&highlight=
June 1973 Pumpkin Orange Thing aka Othing L30H
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=711775&highlight=
1960 Paprika Red Karmann Ghia Convertible aka Schatze L452 built 5/20/60
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
66 21 window bus built 8/31/65 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=777273

[Thompson2]

[mdege]

Does anyone have a suggestion which seals work best. I have old WCM seals (from the early 90ies) which fit fine but it turns out that they leak like hell.
_________________
- Michael

1965 21F: Restoration of a former '65 firetruck
1963 Typ3 Notchback project
1988 Multivan Magnum 112i
1984 Standard: My son wanted a bug for his first car

[junichi]

I don’t have the answer on the seals but have new topics to add.

1. Any issues with mixing and matching pop out halves? I think between the ones on my bus and the 6 replacements I found, I may be able to make 8 foot sets. I wonder, though if that may Lear to fitment issues.

2. Is there a way to identify if these are repro or OG frames?

Thanks
_________________
1964 Kombi- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640048
Sold: 1985 Transporter Doka,1978 Westfalia, 1975 bay x 2, 1986 syncro vanagon, 1965 beetle, 1980 vanagon, 1967 deluxe bus, 1988 golf

[BonTonRoulet]

[junichi]

Thanks!!
_________________
1964 Kombi- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640048
Sold: 1985 Transporter Doka,1978 Westfalia, 1975 bay x 2, 1986 syncro vanagon, 1965 beetle, 1980 vanagon, 1967 deluxe bus, 1988 golf

[David Raistrick]

some notes on the aluminum popouts available.


https://creative-engineering.com/product/complete-pop-out-kit-raw-alloy-for-painting/

purchased 4/2016

screws: M3 x .5, 5mm overall length, frame to frame and frame to hinge. stainless screws and frame plates. no latch hardware included.

glass: 0.1495" thick, logoed. frame gap is 0.270" (stock glass on my 66 I measured is 0.188" in a .292" frame)

frame-to-glass seal: stock U shape with lip on both sides

frame quality: thick, feels solid, perfect corners. outer seal lips appear to be the same all around with no distortion

summary: you _might_ be able to use stock glass in this frame. came with a WW popout latch (grey knobs)
_________________
...david - '66 SO-44 #231

[David Raistrick]

and another aluminum popout kit - this one is CIP1's "four star"

I ordered it with an extra hinge.


https://www2.cip1.com/vwc-211-898-105-aa/

purchased 4/2023

this matches the frame and kits available from the china vendors (ebay, etc) in all listing details, so I suspect it's pretty common.


screws: M4 x ., 6mm OAL - NO frame to hinge screws included, but the holes are M4x.7. no latch screws included either. screws and frame plates are not stainless, zinc coated steel.

glass: 0.1710" thick, no logo. frame gap is .297" (stock glass on my 66 I measured is 0.188" in a .292" frame)

frame-to-glass seal: single sided (so there's only an "outside" rubber lip, and the glass touches metal on the inside) seal is not glued end to end.

frame quality: as you'd expect from china. thing, bending artifacts in corners, and the outer seal lips are distorted and need to be corrected.


summary: plan to buy M4x.7 screws for the hinge side, and a normal frame-to-glass seal. plan to massage the corner tracks to fit the outside seal. came with a generic popout latch with white knobs.

_________________
...david - '66 SO-44 #231