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bw65vw Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2020 Posts: 149 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:46 pm Post subject: Aircooled Newb 2276 Engine build questions/advice |
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I am very new to VW's and aircooled engines but I have been reading and studying alot here trying to learn as much as I can. I am going to have an engine built for my 65 project and talked to the builder Friday and he said I am about #8 on his list so probably end of Oct or Nov before he gets to mine. So I thought I probably should go ahead and be getting some of the parts ordered pretty soon as it seems there can be some long leads times on some items. So the only things I already have are an AS41 case and dual Weber 44 IDF carbs. The builder recommended a CB Performance 82 mm crankshaft and AA 94 mm Piston and cylinders. I am just wanting a strong fun to drive street engine with hopefully some decent longevity.
I noticed in the thread below a few people mentioned the EMPI crankshaft as being good quality and cheaper, but where can it be purchased?
From what I have read it seems the heads can make some of the biggest difference in power. The builder mentioned the CB Panchito heads also. I have read good things about them and how well they flow for the size of valves they have but I was wondering how they might compare to some Tims Stage 2 heads with the larger valves?
I was following this thread and getting some ideas from it too: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=753001&highlight=2276
I didn't talk to the builder about cams any yet, but from the thread it seems like people like an FK8, FK10 or Web 86B. What are some pros and cons for each?
Connecting rods pros and cons of H-beam vs I beams and what determines the length?
Are the lightweight lifters mentioned in the other thread worth the extra $100 it seems they cost compared to regular ones. Some things I have read seems like it is better to have lighter springs and valves than lifters and push rods?
I assume the rocker ratio is determined alot by the cam that is chosen?
I know I have lots of questions here and appreciate any input and advice. Thanks! |
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bw65vw Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2020 Posts: 149 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:02 am Post subject: Re: Aircooled Newb 2276 Engine build questions/advice |
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I also wondered about the possibilty of 92 TW PC instead of 94? It seems I read the 92's run cooler and how much HP difference is there from 92 to 94? I guess the case gets bored the same for both as well. |
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UK Luke 72 Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2011 Posts: 2867 Location: Little Britain
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Aircooled Newb 2276 Engine build questions/advice |
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If I were to do it all again, with what experiences I've had and from the input of a chosen few on here I'd build something along the following lines
78mm dpr crank with type 4 centre main and 8 dowelled flywheel
92mm thick walls
CB h beam rods
AA slipper skirts
CB CNC oval ports
Web 86b
1.4:1 rockers
Smith bros aluminium rockers
1 5/8" merged header
Around the 10-10.2:1 CR.
H beam rods need less clearancing.
The length is dictated by the deck height you're shooting for (0.040-0.050" is the norm)
Fk10/86c is a little too much for a real street car IMO. The 86b is nice.
By all means run an 82mm crank, but I feel like if you're not racing, it ain't gonna matter. _________________ 2276 Beetle build https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=670744&highlight=2276+beetle+daily
2276 EFI Conversion https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=689172 |
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bw65vw Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2020 Posts: 149 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: Aircooled Newb 2276 Engine build questions/advice |
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UK Luke 72 wrote: |
If I were to do it all again, with what experiences I've had and from the input of a chosen few on here I'd build something along the following lines
78mm dpr crank with type 4 centre main and 8 dowelled flywheel
92mm thick walls
CB h beam rods
AA slipper skirts
CB CNC oval ports
Web 86b
1.4:1 rockers
Smith bros aluminium rockers
1 5/8" merged header
Around the 10-10.2:1 CR.
H beam rods need less clearancing.
The length is dictated by the deck height you're shooting for (0.040-0.050" is the norm)
Fk10/86c is a little too much for a real street car IMO. The 86b is nice.
By all means run an 82mm crank, but I feel like if you're not racing, it ain't gonna matter. |
Thanks for the info. Do the aluminum rockers hold up pretty well? On the oval ports is that the intake, exhaust or both? |
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sled Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 6179
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Aircooled Newb 2276 Engine build questions/advice |
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bw65vw wrote: |
UK Luke 72 wrote: |
If I were to do it all again, with what experiences I've had and from the input of a chosen few on here I'd build something along the following lines
78mm dpr crank with type 4 centre main and 8 dowelled flywheel
92mm thick walls
CB h beam rods
AA slipper skirts
CB CNC oval ports
Web 86b
1.4:1 rockers
Smith bros aluminium rockers
1 5/8" merged header
Around the 10-10.2:1 CR.
H beam rods need less clearancing.
The length is dictated by the deck height you're shooting for (0.040-0.050" is the norm)
Fk10/86c is a little too much for a real street car IMO. The 86b is nice.
By all means run an 82mm crank, but I feel like if you're not racing, it ain't gonna matter. |
Thanks for the info. Do the aluminum rockers hold up pretty well? On the oval ports is that the intake, exhaust or both? |
he meant to say aluminum pushrods, although there are some aluminum rockers available (like from Pauter) but they're overkill for your application. Some 1.4's from CB performance or Gene Berg would be nice.
oval port refers to the intake port.
https://www.cbperformance.com/CNC-Ported-044-Cylinder-Heads-s/329.htm _________________ drive your split. |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Aircooled Newb 2276 Engine build questions/advice |
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Empi crank for a good deal and grooved (at least the one I got was) can be found here. Pick the 82MM 4340 VW Journal option. http://carcraftstore.com/chromolycounterweightedcrankshafts.aspx
For $100 bucks or so more the H beams were a no brainer for me. I don't want to worry about the occasional 6500+ RPM wind up. I got those from CB pre-balanced... the do some extra balancing in house and it works out to be a good deal.
I got beehive valve springs and HD aluminum pushrods from a member here, Dan Ruddock. You should look into both those. I'm very happy with mine.
Lifters are determined by cam blank material (what type of steel, hardness, etc) and vise versa. CB Ultralight lifters and Web cams on EP12 blanks are a tried and true combo and are both fairly cheap also (although CB drastically raised the price on the lifters recently... 6 months ago they were like $105 ) _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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UK Luke 72 Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2011 Posts: 2867 Location: Little Britain
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bw65vw Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2020 Posts: 149 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Aircooled Newb 2276 Engine build questions/advice |
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bw65vw wrote: |
UK Luke 72 wrote: |
If I were to do it all again, with what experiences I've had and from the input of a chosen few on here I'd build something along the following lines
78mm dpr crank with type 4 centre main and 8 dowelled flywheel
92mm thick walls
CB h beam rods
AA slipper skirts
CB CNC oval ports
Web 86b
1.4:1 rockers
Smith bros aluminium rockers
1 5/8" merged header
Around the 10-10.2:1 CR.
H beam rods need less clearancing.
The length is dictated by the deck height you're shooting for (0.040-0.050" is the norm)
Fk10/86c is a little too much for a real street car IMO. The 86b is nice.
By all means run an 82mm crank, but I feel like if you're not racing, it ain't gonna matter. |
Thanks for the info. Do the aluminum rockers hold up pretty well? On the oval ports is that the intake, exhaust or both? |
Thanks again for the info guys. Curious what CB "CNC oval port" heads you are talking about. When I look on the website at the 044 CNC I don't see any specifically labeled as oval. Also those seem to be considerably more than the Panchitos. I have emailed CB to see what they may recommend also as the Panchitos may not have large enough valves for this larger displacement. |
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Ohio Tom Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1660 Location: Marshallville Ohio
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Aircooled Newb 2276 Engine build questions/advice |
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I think they stopped with the oval port heads and just offer different versions of the wedge port.
For a hot street motor, can't go wrong with an FK-8/86b cam with high 9's/1 CR.
Wedgeport heads will get you real close to 200HP. Get them with the VW-650 springs. Keep the chromoly retainers.
(gotta have 48 carbs thou)
CB offers an Engine kit with everything ready to go.
Crank and flywheel will be balanced, and all parts setup to work together.
I do recommend H-beam rods. Just for piece of mind. Just a few extra dollars and a whole lot better rods. |
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bw65vw Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2020 Posts: 149 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Aircooled Newb 2276 Engine build questions/advice |
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Ohio Tom wrote: |
I think they stopped with the oval port heads and just offer different versions of the wedge port.
For a hot street motor, can't go wrong with an FK-8/86b cam with high 9's/1 CR.
Wedgeport heads will get you real close to 200HP. Get them with the VW-650 springs. Keep the chromoly retainers.
(gotta have 48 carbs thou)
CB offers an Engine kit with everything ready to go.
Crank and flywheel will be balanced, and all parts setup to work together.
I do recommend H-beam rods. Just for piece of mind. Just a few extra dollars and a whole lot better rods. |
I think I am going to go with the H-beam for the strength and less clearancing required. I really want to stick with the 44 IDF's though as I already have them. I was researching this some and found that you can get up to 40mm venturis to go in the 44 IDF's. Not sure what the stock size is for the 48 IDFs
How do you guys think the Tims Stage 2's compare to the CB wedgeports? Tims are about $200 cheaper for the set and I have read very good things about them on here in other build threads. |
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