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testing a manual fuel pump
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

vamram wrote:
J-Gaz. wrote:
@Vamram, you talking about this base, correct?
https://www.westcoastmetric.com/i-22964698-113-303.html

It would Swell up and inhibit the pushrod from functioning?


Yes, I have a picture showing the swollen "channel" next to a new one somewhere in my gallery....good luck finding it!!


https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8575655&highlight=#8575655

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Very Happy Talk about way too much time on your hands...
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J-Gaz.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

Yep. Generator style.

I've swaped it correct.
Replaced the Fuel Filter too.

Did not solve the problem, but it is "running" now after I took it to the shop and they discoverd it had bad points and a bad coil. (Coli was shoing 3.7 ohms back in 2009/10, and I Just went with it.)

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J-Gaz.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

So here's where we are at:


After I swapped the Fuel Pump stand last week, and the fuel pump this week along with the filter, it still wouldn't start.

So, I took it to PorBug Repair in Edmonds, and George saw that the points were bad and the coil was bad.
Had him replace it with an electronic ignition unit and got a new coil.

Now it runs - But it runs like sh*t 💩.

Feels like one of the cylinders isn't firing.
Sometimes it's running smooth, then feels like someone unplugged a sparkplug wire, or I'm dragging tires behind the car.
There's a lot of drag.

Then it will pick up to the Zip and torque I'm used to, but only for a brief second to give me hope... then back to the lag and drag.

The last time it did this - felt underpowered, and a loss of power when I give it gas was when the brand new valves had gone bad.

(2009 thread. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4784374#4784374)

Here's the thing that kills me - I drive the car at most once a weekend, and less than that over the actual course of a year. I've only been taking it out recently in the last couple of years during the summers. So it's not like I've been driving it every day for the last 10 years. For most of that time, it was parked.

Not stoked about this what feels like I need to pull the engine and redo the heads - again (this would be the 3rd time).

Now's where i feel like I should have had 1 thread for all this beetle drama! ha! instead I've got like 7 threads over the years of Just straight tourture.

From here:
Replace sparkplugs and see if that makes any difference.
Leak down test.
Still probably should clean the main steel fuel line in case it's full of trash.
Fuel Pressure Test.

What else can I do to help Isolate this before I've got to hand it off to a shop again?

Appreciate it.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

Sounds like fuel starvation. Have you disconnected the fuel line going to the pump to see if you're getting a good steady stream of fuel from the tank?

Have you checked that the fuel pump push rod protrudes 13mm from the pump stand/flange when it's at its highest position?

Was the timing reset after the electronic ignition were installed?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

Hey Joey, all good questions.

Fuel starvation is kind of what started this thread. That's the reason I replaced the Bakelite fuel pump stand, and then the fuel pump.
It seemed to stall after driving a bit, and the consensus was that the backlight swells up (See Thread above.)

However, after doing that it just wouldn't start - which is why it went to the shop for the coil and electronic ignition - no more points to fuss with.

I have to imagine that the timing was done correctly as it was installed by a shop.

As for the Pushrod on the fuel pump, I didn't measure it.
It's the long push rod with the appropriate fuel pump.

I have not removed the fuel line from the tank to see if it lets out a steady stream.

However, when I did replace the fuel pump and removed the line that came from the tank, I Didn't experience a lot of fuel coming out. In fact, barely any came out.
I did move fairly quickly though too as to not spill a bunch of gas in the garage.


Joey wrote:
Sounds like fuel starvation. Have you disconnected the fuel line going to the pump to see if you're getting a good steady stream of fuel from the tank?

Have you checked that the fuel pump pushrod protrudes 13mm from the pump stand/flange when it's at its highest position?

Was the timing reset after the electronic ignition were installed?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

J-Gaz. wrote:
I have to imagine that the timing was done correctly as it was installed by a shop.


I would check - call them and ask or check it yourself.

J-Gaz. wrote:
As for the Pushrod on the fuel pump, I didn't measure it.
It's the long push rod with the appropriate fuel pump.


I would check this measurement if the flange/base/stand was replaced. The new ones are known to be too thick.

J-Gaz. wrote:
I have not removed the fuel line from the tank to see if it lets out a steady stream.

However, when I did replace the fuel pump and removed the line that came from the tank, I Didn't experience a lot of fuel coming out. In fact, barely any came out.


That's a RED flag right there!
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:21 am    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

Thanks for the response Joey:
So the game plan:
1. Check in with the shop about timing.

2. Measure the fuel pump stand? is that what you are suggesting? if so, what is the correct height?

3. Remove the fuel line from the tank side of the pump to see if it lets out a steady stream of fuel.

Anything else I can try? My garage and tools are fairly limited to bolt-on repairs - but more any other ideas would be helpful.


Joey wrote:
J-Gaz. wrote:
I have to imagine that the timing was done correctly as it was installed by a shop.


I would check - call them and ask or check it yourself.

J-Gaz. wrote:
As for the Pushrod on the fuel pump, I didn't measure it.
It's the long push rod with the appropriate fuel pump.


I would check this measurement if the flange/base/stand was replaced. The new ones are known to be too thick.

J-Gaz. wrote:
I have not removed the fuel line from the tank to see if it lets out a steady stream.

However, when I did replace the fuel pump and removed the line that came from the tank, I Didn't experience a lot of fuel coming out. In fact, barely any came out.


That's a RED flag right there!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:52 am    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

J-Gaz. wrote:
Thanks for the response Joey:
So the game plan:
1. Check in with the shop about timing.

2. Measure the fuel pump stand? is that what you are suggesting? if so, what is the correct height?

3. Remove the fuel line from the tank side of the pump to see if it lets out a steady stream of fuel.

Anything else I can try? My garage and tools are fairly limited to bolt-on repairs - but more any other ideas would be helpful.


I'd do #3 FIRST !!!!
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

Easy enough.
Should it just drain out?
Nice steady stream kind of thing?

Cusser wrote:
J-Gaz. wrote:
Thanks for the response Joey:
So the game plan:
1. Check in with the shop about timing.

2. Measure the fuel pump stand? is that what you are suggesting? if so, what is the correct height?

3. Remove the fuel line from the tank side of the pump to see if it lets out a steady stream of fuel.

Anything else I can try? My garage and tools are fairly limited to bolt-on repairs - but more any other ideas would be helpful.


I'd do #3 FIRST !!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

J-Gaz. wrote:
Measure the fuel pump stand? is that what you are suggesting? if so, what is the correct height?


Remove fuel pump. Turn engine over until the fuel pump rod is at its highest position. Measure from end of rod to fuel pump stand with gasket in place. Measurement must be 13 mm.

If more than 13 mm add more gaskets.

If less than 13 mm find a stand the correct thickness. Or... you can sand it down to the correct thickness using a piece of 80 grit sandpaper placed on a flat surface like a counter top or a piece of glass. Go slow, use even pressure and check it ofter as it doesn’t take much sanding.

Even if you have a steady flow of fuel from your tank a measurement of less than 13 mm at the push rod can cause hesitation and symptoms of fuel starvation. Trust me. It happened to me.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

J-Gaz. wrote:
Easy enough.
Should it just drain out?
Nice steady stream kind of thing?


Yes.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

Thanks Joey,

I just toped it up to a full tank too - So hopefully I'll get a steady stream, and not spill gas all over my garage! ha!

Could make cleaning the fuel line a real pain though, I'll have to find a home for all that gas!

Joey wrote:
J-Gaz. wrote:
Easy enough.
Should it just drain out?
Nice steady stream kind of thing?


Yes.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

Ok, here is the video of the trickle from the fuel line.

Too much of a Trickle? Or what you expected?


Link

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

Just came across this thread.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19701

Is this the next step?
I can still get a compression/leak down kit from harbor freight, but my gut says it's a clogged fuel line.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:06 am    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

There definitely should be more fuel coming out than that. I would first check the rubber hose coming off the tank. Sometimes the hose develops a kink overtime. Removing one of the front wheels will give you good access. If all looks good then unfortunately the tank will need to be removed and inspected. There a screen in the bottom of the tank that can be removed that sometimes gets full of crud.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:30 am    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

I may have missed it, but at any point did you try blowing compressed air through the metal fuel line that runs through the car from the tank back to underneath the rear frame?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

Hey @sb001, thanks for this. No. No, I have not done this.

Walk me through this?
Wouldn't that just push any crud in the line back up into the tank?

sb001 wrote:
I may have missed it, but at any point did you try blowing compressed air through the metal fuel line that runs through the car from the tank back to underneath the rear frame?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:04 am    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

Thanks, Joey,
If I remember correctly, the shop had replaced the line off the tank when they did some other repairs a while back.
I'll take a look and see what I can see.

Am I just looking for a kink in the line on the hose from the take to the steel fuel line?

Joey wrote:
There definitely should be more fuel coming out than that. I would first check the rubber hose coming off the tank. Sometimes the hose develops a kink overtime. Removing one of the front wheels will give you good access. If all looks good then unfortunately the tank will need to be removed and inspected. There a screen in the bottom of the tank that can be removed that sometimes gets full of crud.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:22 am    Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump Reply with quote

J-Gaz. wrote:
Thanks, Joey,
If I remember correctly, the shop had replaced the line off the tank when they did some other repairs a while back.
I'll take a look and see what I can see.

Am I just looking for a kink in the line on the hose from the tank to the steel fuel line?


Correct.
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