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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31271 Location: Hot Arizona
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10399 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump |
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vamram wrote: |
Yes, I have a picture showing the swollen "channel" next to a new one somewhere in my gallery....good luck finding it!! |
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8575655&highlight=#8575655
Talk about way too much time on your hands... _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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J-Gaz. Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2007 Posts: 613 Location: 253 Then, Now 206.
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump |
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Yep. Generator style.
I've swaped it correct.
Replaced the Fuel Filter too.
Did not solve the problem, but it is "running" now after I took it to the shop and they discoverd it had bad points and a bad coil. (Coli was shoing 3.7 ohms back in 2009/10, and I Just went with it.)
_________________ 1970 Beetle | Basically Stock 1600 SP |
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J-Gaz. Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2007 Posts: 613 Location: 253 Then, Now 206.
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump |
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So here's where we are at:
After I swapped the Fuel Pump stand last week, and the fuel pump this week along with the filter, it still wouldn't start.
So, I took it to PorBug Repair in Edmonds, and George saw that the points were bad and the coil was bad.
Had him replace it with an electronic ignition unit and got a new coil.
Now it runs - But it runs like sh*t 💩.
Feels like one of the cylinders isn't firing.
Sometimes it's running smooth, then feels like someone unplugged a sparkplug wire, or I'm dragging tires behind the car.
There's a lot of drag.
Then it will pick up to the Zip and torque I'm used to, but only for a brief second to give me hope... then back to the lag and drag.
The last time it did this - felt underpowered, and a loss of power when I give it gas was when the brand new valves had gone bad.
(2009 thread. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4784374#4784374)
Here's the thing that kills me - I drive the car at most once a weekend, and less than that over the actual course of a year. I've only been taking it out recently in the last couple of years during the summers. So it's not like I've been driving it every day for the last 10 years. For most of that time, it was parked.
Not stoked about this what feels like I need to pull the engine and redo the heads - again (this would be the 3rd time).
Now's where i feel like I should have had 1 thread for all this beetle drama! ha! instead I've got like 7 threads over the years of Just straight tourture.
From here:
Replace sparkplugs and see if that makes any difference.
Leak down test.
Still probably should clean the main steel fuel line in case it's full of trash.
Fuel Pressure Test.
What else can I do to help Isolate this before I've got to hand it off to a shop again?
Appreciate it. _________________ 1970 Beetle | Basically Stock 1600 SP |
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Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5364 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump |
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Sounds like fuel starvation. Have you disconnected the fuel line going to the pump to see if you're getting a good steady stream of fuel from the tank?
Have you checked that the fuel pump push rod protrudes 13mm from the pump stand/flange when it's at its highest position?
Was the timing reset after the electronic ignition were installed? _________________ Joey
60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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J-Gaz. Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2007 Posts: 613 Location: 253 Then, Now 206.
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump |
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Hey Joey, all good questions.
Fuel starvation is kind of what started this thread. That's the reason I replaced the Bakelite fuel pump stand, and then the fuel pump.
It seemed to stall after driving a bit, and the consensus was that the backlight swells up (See Thread above.)
However, after doing that it just wouldn't start - which is why it went to the shop for the coil and electronic ignition - no more points to fuss with.
I have to imagine that the timing was done correctly as it was installed by a shop.
As for the Pushrod on the fuel pump, I didn't measure it.
It's the long push rod with the appropriate fuel pump.
I have not removed the fuel line from the tank to see if it lets out a steady stream.
However, when I did replace the fuel pump and removed the line that came from the tank, I Didn't experience a lot of fuel coming out. In fact, barely any came out.
I did move fairly quickly though too as to not spill a bunch of gas in the garage.
Joey wrote: |
Sounds like fuel starvation. Have you disconnected the fuel line going to the pump to see if you're getting a good steady stream of fuel from the tank?
Have you checked that the fuel pump pushrod protrudes 13mm from the pump stand/flange when it's at its highest position?
Was the timing reset after the electronic ignition were installed? |
_________________ 1970 Beetle | Basically Stock 1600 SP |
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Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5364 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:13 am Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump |
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J-Gaz. wrote: |
I have to imagine that the timing was done correctly as it was installed by a shop. |
I would check - call them and ask or check it yourself.
J-Gaz. wrote: |
As for the Pushrod on the fuel pump, I didn't measure it.
It's the long push rod with the appropriate fuel pump. |
I would check this measurement if the flange/base/stand was replaced. The new ones are known to be too thick.
J-Gaz. wrote: |
I have not removed the fuel line from the tank to see if it lets out a steady stream.
However, when I did replace the fuel pump and removed the line that came from the tank, I Didn't experience a lot of fuel coming out. In fact, barely any came out. |
That's a RED flag right there! _________________ Joey
60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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J-Gaz. Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2007 Posts: 613 Location: 253 Then, Now 206.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:21 am Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump |
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Thanks for the response Joey:
So the game plan:
1. Check in with the shop about timing.
2. Measure the fuel pump stand? is that what you are suggesting? if so, what is the correct height?
3. Remove the fuel line from the tank side of the pump to see if it lets out a steady stream of fuel.
Anything else I can try? My garage and tools are fairly limited to bolt-on repairs - but more any other ideas would be helpful.
Joey wrote: |
J-Gaz. wrote: |
I have to imagine that the timing was done correctly as it was installed by a shop. |
I would check - call them and ask or check it yourself.
J-Gaz. wrote: |
As for the Pushrod on the fuel pump, I didn't measure it.
It's the long push rod with the appropriate fuel pump. |
I would check this measurement if the flange/base/stand was replaced. The new ones are known to be too thick.
J-Gaz. wrote: |
I have not removed the fuel line from the tank to see if it lets out a steady stream.
However, when I did replace the fuel pump and removed the line that came from the tank, I Didn't experience a lot of fuel coming out. In fact, barely any came out. |
That's a RED flag right there! |
_________________ 1970 Beetle | Basically Stock 1600 SP |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31271 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:52 am Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump |
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J-Gaz. wrote: |
Thanks for the response Joey:
So the game plan:
1. Check in with the shop about timing.
2. Measure the fuel pump stand? is that what you are suggesting? if so, what is the correct height?
3. Remove the fuel line from the tank side of the pump to see if it lets out a steady stream of fuel.
Anything else I can try? My garage and tools are fairly limited to bolt-on repairs - but more any other ideas would be helpful.
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I'd do #3 FIRST !!!! _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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J-Gaz. Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2007 Posts: 613 Location: 253 Then, Now 206.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:13 am Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump |
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Easy enough.
Should it just drain out?
Nice steady stream kind of thing?
Cusser wrote: |
J-Gaz. wrote: |
Thanks for the response Joey:
So the game plan:
1. Check in with the shop about timing.
2. Measure the fuel pump stand? is that what you are suggesting? if so, what is the correct height?
3. Remove the fuel line from the tank side of the pump to see if it lets out a steady stream of fuel.
Anything else I can try? My garage and tools are fairly limited to bolt-on repairs - but more any other ideas would be helpful.
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I'd do #3 FIRST !!!! |
_________________ 1970 Beetle | Basically Stock 1600 SP |
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Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5364 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:40 am Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump |
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J-Gaz. wrote: |
Measure the fuel pump stand? is that what you are suggesting? if so, what is the correct height? |
Remove fuel pump. Turn engine over until the fuel pump rod is at its highest position. Measure from end of rod to fuel pump stand with gasket in place. Measurement must be 13 mm.
If more than 13 mm add more gaskets.
If less than 13 mm find a stand the correct thickness. Or... you can sand it down to the correct thickness using a piece of 80 grit sandpaper placed on a flat surface like a counter top or a piece of glass. Go slow, use even pressure and check it ofter as it doesnt take much sanding.
Even if you have a steady flow of fuel from your tank a measurement of less than 13 mm at the push rod can cause hesitation and symptoms of fuel starvation. Trust me. It happened to me. _________________ Joey
60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5364 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:42 am Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump |
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J-Gaz. wrote: |
Easy enough.
Should it just drain out?
Nice steady stream kind of thing? |
Yes. _________________ Joey
60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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J-Gaz. Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2007 Posts: 613 Location: 253 Then, Now 206.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:27 am Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump |
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Thanks Joey,
I just toped it up to a full tank too - So hopefully I'll get a steady stream, and not spill gas all over my garage! ha!
Could make cleaning the fuel line a real pain though, I'll have to find a home for all that gas!
Joey wrote: |
J-Gaz. wrote: |
Easy enough.
Should it just drain out?
Nice steady stream kind of thing? |
Yes. |
_________________ 1970 Beetle | Basically Stock 1600 SP |
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J-Gaz. Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2007 Posts: 613 Location: 253 Then, Now 206.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump |
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Ok, here is the video of the trickle from the fuel line.
Too much of a Trickle? Or what you expected?
Link
_________________ 1970 Beetle | Basically Stock 1600 SP |
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J-Gaz. Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2007 Posts: 613 Location: 253 Then, Now 206.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump |
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Just came across this thread.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19701
Is this the next step?
I can still get a compression/leak down kit from harbor freight, but my gut says it's a clogged fuel line. _________________ 1970 Beetle | Basically Stock 1600 SP |
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Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5364 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:06 am Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump |
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There definitely should be more fuel coming out than that. I would first check the rubber hose coming off the tank. Sometimes the hose develops a kink overtime. Removing one of the front wheels will give you good access. If all looks good then unfortunately the tank will need to be removed and inspected. There a screen in the bottom of the tank that can be removed that sometimes gets full of crud. _________________ Joey
60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10399 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:30 am Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump |
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I may have missed it, but at any point did you try blowing compressed air through the metal fuel line that runs through the car from the tank back to underneath the rear frame? _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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J-Gaz. Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2007 Posts: 613 Location: 253 Then, Now 206.
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:02 am Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump |
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Hey @sb001, thanks for this. No. No, I have not done this.
Walk me through this?
Wouldn't that just push any crud in the line back up into the tank?
sb001 wrote: |
I may have missed it, but at any point did you try blowing compressed air through the metal fuel line that runs through the car from the tank back to underneath the rear frame? |
_________________ 1970 Beetle | Basically Stock 1600 SP |
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J-Gaz. Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2007 Posts: 613 Location: 253 Then, Now 206.
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:04 am Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump |
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Thanks, Joey,
If I remember correctly, the shop had replaced the line off the tank when they did some other repairs a while back.
I'll take a look and see what I can see.
Am I just looking for a kink in the line on the hose from the take to the steel fuel line?
Joey wrote: |
There definitely should be more fuel coming out than that. I would first check the rubber hose coming off the tank. Sometimes the hose develops a kink overtime. Removing one of the front wheels will give you good access. If all looks good then unfortunately the tank will need to be removed and inspected. There a screen in the bottom of the tank that can be removed that sometimes gets full of crud. |
_________________ 1970 Beetle | Basically Stock 1600 SP |
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Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5364 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:22 am Post subject: Re: testing a manual fuel pump |
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J-Gaz. wrote: |
Thanks, Joey,
If I remember correctly, the shop had replaced the line off the tank when they did some other repairs a while back.
I'll take a look and see what I can see.
Am I just looking for a kink in the line on the hose from the tank to the steel fuel line? |
Correct. _________________ Joey
60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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