Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Is this Syncro Front Hub shot?
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Mathew Zelezen
Samba Member


Joined: November 04, 2004
Posts: 547
Location: Graeagle, CA
Mathew Zelezen is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:52 pm    Post subject: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? Reply with quote

I've had a growling noise which I eventually isolated to the front passenger side (old post was leaning towards the Diff but thankfully that wasn't the case).

I pulled the hub and this is what I found:



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



You can see the outer race is still on the hub.. and I think that's the circlip as well.
Shouldn't the circlip have prevented this from coming out?

So is this hub toast? And if so where do I find another? Of course its a Saturday and all the usual vendors are closed but I don't see any on their sites or anywhere really.
Any leads on where I can pick one up?
_________________
87 Syncro Tintop
~Rocky J Motor
~Steedle Trans


Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: It might have been.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Sodo
Samba Member


Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9521
Location: Western WA
Sodo is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? Reply with quote

The outer race is a light press-fit onto the hub. If a new bearing race still press-fits onto the hub it’s probably OK.

You have to get the inner race off.
Its not easy. Some people cut them off with a Dremel etc.

If you pressed it off, that would tell you if theres still a press fit at the outer bearing location.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here’s a “shot” hub.
I’m guessing yours is OK.
Can you measure any reduced diameter?
Those divots from the previous mechanic aren’t anything to worry about as long as they’re not high.

I don’t recall seeing shims behind my inner bearing race.
Are you sure that exploded diagram is T3 Syncro?


Vendors don’t have new hubs, they are NLA.
You have to locate a good used hub.
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
danfromsyr
Samba Member


Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15129
Location: Syracuse, NY
danfromsyr is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? Reply with quote

there was a guy who had some brandy new ones made, but I don't see the ad on Samba anymore.

you can also posibly use some loctite sleeve retaining stuff if you're concerned

https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/products/industrial-adhesives/retaining-compounds.html

Quote:
As a type of anaerobic adhesive, retaining compounds are essential for the precision assembly of press- and slip-fitted parts, as well as any component that is used within systems subject to high vibration in challenging environmental conditions. Capable of filling spaces between individual components, they cure to form a strong bond and allow for the transmission of high loads without the need for air. This means sealed components and machine designs can still achieve high strength and temperature resistance across a variety of substrates.

Used across a broad range of mechanical components, as well as for bearings, shafts, and cylinder liners, retaining compounds are most commonly found within the automotive and heavy machinery industries. However, they can also be used in any industry where metal-to-metal adhesion is required for moving parts. Additionally, retaining compounds help manufacturers to avoid unnecessary machining of a broad range of mechanical components during MRO.

There are a number of reasons electrically high strength retaining compounds might be chosen over other methods of bonding and adhesion, and the advantages are clear. In fact, any type of component that will be under stress, that has a small adhesion area, and that is found within moving machinery, can benefit from retaining compounds. Moreover, any component that is at risk of fretting leading to corrosion can benefit from these materials to reduce wear and potential failure during operation.

For more information on individual products or the retaining compound range, contact one of our advisors today to discuss you needs and specific application

_________________
Abscate wrote:
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Mathew Zelezen
Samba Member


Joined: November 04, 2004
Posts: 547
Location: Graeagle, CA
Mathew Zelezen is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? Reply with quote

Sodo,
Thanks for the optimism.
Yeah you"re right. "Discontinued" is all I'm finding with searches.

That exploded diagram is from GoWesty's website.
I'm confused what the "shims" are between my hub and the race as well.
And shouldn't the circlip have held this outer bearing race in place?

Dan,
That's a solid idea. And I did see those new hubs from that guy in Norway a while back but can't find them online anywhere either.
_________________
87 Syncro Tintop
~Rocky J Motor
~Steedle Trans


Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: It might have been.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Sodo
Samba Member


Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9521
Location: Western WA
Sodo is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? Reply with quote

I think the guy in Norway cast Stainless Steel rear wheel bearing housings.
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Steve M.
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6798
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
Steve M. is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? Reply with quote

As a last resort if you cannot find one anywhere find a really good machine shop with welding capabilities.
They can weld multiple beads all around the bearing surface to build it up and then turn it down to correct size on a lathe.
I know of crankshafts being done this way where the could not find a replacement anywhere.
_________________
This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Sodo
Samba Member


Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9521
Location: Western WA
Sodo is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? Reply with quote

Mathew Zelezen wrote:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Those 3 shims are ‘significant’.
I’d wanna know what thats all about before reassembly.
That shim between the two races doesn’t make sense,
Maybe that’s not a Syncro bearing?
Maybe that hub has already been “repaired”.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here’s a rough sketch of the assembly.
I sketched this in 2016, and was positive that someone would post a “real” drawing shortly.
Could it be this is the only Syncro front wheel bearing diagram on the earth?
And in all of Germany?
It sure would be great if someone with skills and Van-time on their hands…..
would make a real drawing, or even a CAD drawing of thi Syncro front wheel bearing assembly with seals and everything.
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50261

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? Reply with quote

So long as the inner race fits tight and square on the hub the hub is likely okay and the nicks and gouges wouldn't hurt any thing, at least if they aren't where the lip of the seal runs.

Last edited by Wildthings on Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
hans j
Samba Member


Joined: May 06, 2006
Posts: 2713
Location: Salt Lake City UT
hans j is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? Reply with quote

Not necessarily. You need to get the other inner race off to compare to. Just because it has gouges in it, doesn't mean it won't fit correctly. If it's worn down, that's when there is a problem.
_________________
1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
hans j
Samba Member


Joined: May 06, 2006
Posts: 2713
Location: Salt Lake City UT
hans j is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? Reply with quote

And for inner race removal, this is the way

Link

_________________
1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Sodo
Samba Member


Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9521
Location: Western WA
Sodo is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? Reply with quote

hans j wrote:
And for inner race removal, this is the way


that rules!
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50261

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? Reply with quote

hans j wrote:
Not necessarily. You need to get the other inner race off to compare to. Just because it has gouges in it, doesn't mean it won't fit correctly. If it's worn down, that's when there is a problem.


If you are referring to my post, that is pretty much what I said.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Sodo
Samba Member


Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9521
Location: Western WA
Sodo is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
nicks and gouges wouldn't hurt any thing, at least if they aren't where the lip of the seal runs.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I’d also file those off as a matter of principle.
The seal doesn’t run there but they could nick the seal during assembly.
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50261

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
nicks and gouges wouldn't hurt any thing, at least if they aren't where the lip of the seal runs.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I’d also file those off as a matter of principle.
The seal doesn’t run there but they could nick the seal during assembly.


Agreed, it looks like some ape worked on this hub previously. Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Mathew Zelezen
Samba Member


Joined: November 04, 2004
Posts: 547
Location: Graeagle, CA
Mathew Zelezen is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:48 am    Post subject: Re: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? Reply with quote

That's a great video hans j! I wish I had a vise and a torch but I'm in a campground right now so that brings its own challenges.

Sodo, I don't think your picture needs any improvements.. and its in COLOR! And since the internet is forever that drawing will be around longer than we will be! Hahaha!
OK, I'll either score the race and hit it with a chisel or have it pulled and we'll see what the deal is with the mystery spacers.
And I'll do what I can to "de-ape" the rim of the hub to prevent any damage to seals.

I'll report back with some pics when I get this thing apart.
I'm an ER Nurse and I work the next two nights so hopefully by Tuesday I'll know more.

As always, thanks for the help!
_________________
87 Syncro Tintop
~Rocky J Motor
~Steedle Trans


Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: It might have been.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
djkeev
Samba Moderator


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32433
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:03 am    Post subject: Re: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? Reply with quote

BernZOmatic makes a small oxy/acy torch set up.

It works, I have one.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=747720&highlight=

Get this torch, whittle a sturdy stick to fit the hub and shove it in the ground, you don't need a vise.

To put on the new one?
Put the hub in ice, better frozen but ice will suffice. Just dry itvwell before the hot race goes on. Maybe a gallon size ZipLoc bag to keep it dry while freezing it?

Then
A pot of oil on the camp stove, throw in the race and heat.
The same principle only gentler.

Be aware of your oils flash point.
Have the pot lid handy just in case.

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jake de Villiers
Samba Member


Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5911
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
Jake de Villiers is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? Reply with quote

hans j wrote:
And for inner race removal, this is the way

Link

Awesome!
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Mathew Zelezen
Samba Member


Joined: November 04, 2004
Posts: 547
Location: Graeagle, CA
Mathew Zelezen is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? {SOLVED} Reply with quote

Got a bit of sleep and then tore into the bearings and housing.
It looks like the noise was DEFINITELY coming from the passenger side bearing. Notice the pitting and galling.
And the "shims" I thought I was seeing turned out to be an optical delusion. Its just the edges of the race.
Its worrisome that I had these bearings installed less than 7 months ago when I was in Maine. I spoke with my mechanic here at Outwesty (Awesome shop and solid guy who installed my new bearings here in Lake Tahoe) and he said he's witnessing the same short life span with bearings on his and his customer's vans. Poor quality/cheap materials?
At any rate, these current bearings are the "Italian" ones I picked up from Burley. Here's hoping they last a bit longer!


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
87 Syncro Tintop
~Rocky J Motor
~Steedle Trans


Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: It might have been.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50261

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? {SOLVED} Reply with quote

Mathew Zelezen wrote:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Since the inner race is spinning it is surprising that the damage doesn't show all the way around the race.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Steve M.
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6798
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
Steve M. is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: Is this Syncro Front Hub shot? {SOLVED} Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
Mathew Zelezen wrote:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Since the inner race is spinning it is surprising that the damage doesn't show all the way around the race.


That is intersting.
My question: is this damage on the top side, bottom road side, front or rear of the bearing?
Front or rear should not be a problem, but windering what your tire looks like as far as tread wear goes.
_________________
This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.