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will t Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009 Posts: 179
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:16 pm Post subject: Coil Question |
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Hi all, I have a brand new coil. The test light lights up on both the positive and the negative posts. It does not go out when the distributor is rotated away until the points close, which it is supposed to.
Full disclosure, I wired the points wrong one time (experimenting, like a dummy) and melted the wire from the condenser to the coil. It was smoking away until i ripped it free.
Ever since, I have no spark coming from the coil (and I tried a different coil also) and the test light lights up on both positive and negative on the coil with the ignition on. Also it does not light up connecting the clamp end to the negative and the pointy end on the positive, which I believe it is supposed to.
Any help getting some spark from the coil would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Will |
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14269 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Coil Question |
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Have you installed a fresh condenser and points? Did you melt the ground wire in the distributor? |
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will t Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009 Posts: 179
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: Coil Question |
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BarryL wrote: |
Have you installed a fresh condenser and points? Did you melt the ground wire in the distributor? |
I put the electronic ignition module and doughnut back in.
Where is the ground wire in the distributor? Do you mean the points wire? I removed it and the points altogether.
The biggest mystery is why doesn't the coil produce any spark? There is nothing coming to the distributor at all. So it seems like it doesn't really matter if it is points or electronic because there is nothing coming down the wire from the coil to the distributor. I held the coil wire (that plugs into the center of the dist cap) near a ground, cranked the starter, and nothing. I put my test light point inside the end and nothing. |
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j.pickens Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2002 Posts: 9791 Location: Exit 7, New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: Coil Question |
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will t wrote: |
BarryL wrote: |
Have you installed a fresh condenser and points? Did you melt the ground wire in the distributor? |
I put the electronic ignition module and doughnut back in.
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There's your problem, you probably fried the electronic ignition module. Is it a Pertronix? Hooking them up backwards electrically will kill them. _________________ Founder and Chairman Emeritus, ECMSAS
BBX BBXII and BBXXI Long Distance Award Winner
BeaterBarndoor wrote: |
i wish more people would actually drive their vws rather than just talking about what they have in the garage. |
Red Fau Veh wrote: |
If you've seen one sunroof swivel seat kombi, you've seen them all! |
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will t Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009 Posts: 179
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Coil Question |
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j.pickens wrote: |
will t wrote: |
BarryL wrote: |
Have you installed a fresh condenser and points? Did you melt the ground wire in the distributor? |
I put the electronic ignition module and doughnut back in.
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There's your problem, you probably fried the electronic ignition module. Is it a Pertronix? Hooking them up backwards electrically will kill them. |
I hooked up a set of points and a condenser backwards and fried them. I never hooked up the electronic ignition module backwards I don't think.
Just out of curiosity, forget the distributor, shouldn't I be able to get the coil to spark out by holding the wire end near a good ground and crannking the starter? Because independent of the distributor completely I cannot get the coil to produce anything. Or a different coil. |
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will t Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009 Posts: 179
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Coil Question |
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I have a couple of working coils and am getting the same result from both. I have power from the ignition to the positive side of the coil. With a grounded test light, the negative side of the coil should light it up only when the points are open. It lights up all the time - points open or closed.
Any ideas would be very much appreciated.
Thanks,
Will
ps maybe related, maybe not. I cannot get a coil to product a spark. Ideas? |
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will t Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009 Posts: 179
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Coil Question |
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BarryL wrote: |
Have you installed a fresh condenser and points? Did you melt the ground wire in the distributor? |
That's very likely. I will check it next and also install a new set of points and a new condenser.
Thanks Barry |
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blacka1vw Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2013 Posts: 89 Location: N. Central PA
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:37 am Post subject: Re: Coil Question |
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For a quick test of the coil. With the key on take a jumper from ground and just quickly touch the negative side of the coil it should throw spark from the coil wire. Don’t leave ground connected. If it sparks you have a problem in the distributor system. _________________ 64 SC truck.
71 Beetle -Skyy
71 Super -Sweet pea
73 Bus
79 Bus -Tic Tak
86 Cabriolet |
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will t Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009 Posts: 179
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:01 am Post subject: Re: Coil Question |
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blacka1vw wrote: |
For a quick test of the coil. With the key on take a jumper from ground and just quickly touch the negative side of the coil it should throw spark from the coil wire. Don’t leave ground connected. If it sparks you have a problem in the distributor system. |
Thank you @blacka1vw, I will give that a go this morning!
Will |
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will t Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009 Posts: 179
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Coil Question |
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blacka1vw wrote: |
For a quick test of the coil. With the key on take a jumper from ground and just quickly touch the negative side of the coil it should throw spark from the coil wire. Don’t leave ground connected. If it sparks you have a problem in the distributor system. |
With the ignition switch on, I touched a jump wire conected to the negative post of the battery to the negative post of the coil. There was a very small spark at the point of contact (nothing, really) and no spark from the coil wire. |
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blacka1vw Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2013 Posts: 89 Location: N. Central PA
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Coil Question |
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Maybe grab a simple spark checker that’s available for cheap from your auto parts stores. Put that on the coil wire and ground the lead. Then do the ground on the coil for a one and count then pull the ground and it should spark when you remove the ground wire from coil negative. Only works if ya got a good 12v on the positive side and the coil is good. _________________ 64 SC truck.
71 Beetle -Skyy
71 Super -Sweet pea
73 Bus
79 Bus -Tic Tak
86 Cabriolet |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3555 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Coil Question |
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Without a condenser in the circuit, you won't get much coil output.
Try this: completely unplug the green distributor from the coil (terminal 1). Connect a spare condenser from ground to coil terminal 1. With the key on, and using a jumper wire, momentarily ground coil terminal 1. When you subsequently un-ground the coil, you should get a nice fat spark from the coil secondary wire to ground. If you do, then the fault likely lies somewhere in the distributor. _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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will t Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009 Posts: 179
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Coil Question |
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Thanks for the help everyone. I removed the electronic ignition that was in the bus (009 distributor) and installed a new regular set of points and a condenser, and the coil now fires fine.
Thanks again,
Will |
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will t Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009 Posts: 179
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: Coil Question |
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will t wrote: |
Thanks for the help everyone. I removed the electronic ignition that was in the bus (009 distributor) and installed a new regular set of points and a condenser, and the coil now fires fine.
Thanks again,
Will |
Hi all,
I thought the coil was firing fine because it seemed to actually be firing. However, when I test the fire by holding the center wire (to distributor) near ground I only can get an orange spark. It is definitely there, but only orange, and I don't think it's strong enough to even fire a spark plug. My research indicates that the spark from the coil to ground should be a very good blue. Mine is not.
I installed a new Bosch condenser, the points are operating as they are supposed to, and there is plenty of battery power. Is it possible the engine isn't grounded properly? Would a less than excellent ground strap from the battery to the body prevent a strong coil spark?
Signed,
Frustrated.
Thanks! |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3555 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Coil Question |
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An orange spark is usually created by some type of contaminate burning in the arc. What you're interested in is the length of the spark. You need around 3/8 inch in free air.
If the starter cranks the engine, the ground strap isn't the problem. Check the voltage at the black wire on coil terminal 15.
Try a different condenser. Bosch is not known for quality these days... _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14269 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Coil Question |
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Have you checked the little braided ground wire in the distributor or does yours have that? |
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