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My 1500S Notch Project
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Ossipon
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Joined: May 12, 2021
Posts: 471
Location: KS
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: My 1500S Notch Project Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:

You might really want to look thru my "Krunchy" build thread in my signature. It might be a 71 Notch, but it had a lot of the same rust your car has. It needed pan halfs, basically an entire front clip, rockers on both sides (inners and outers), repairs to the rear wheel well arches, along with bumper mounts (front and rear), a rear apron, and a host of other things (starting to read like a grocery list). ...

I have been looking at it. I agree there are many parallels. I am envious of you now working on the 34.
And this may sound like a bunch of "Old Fart" statements, but I wish I had had access in the 70s and 80s to something like Samba then. All my knowledge and skills had to be trial and mostly error. Before there were sources like this, I had to make do with just manuals and guesstimation. Sheet steel, lightwt angle pieces, then finish and seal with roofing tar as anti-rust were my frame fixes then. And sourcing was strictly H-VWs ads and and the salvage yards.
Now, Gretchen is my "prize" for retirement. Yes, I admit it, retirement. My goal is similar to your existing accomplishment. Gretchen once finished is to be my daily driver, replacing my '13 Sportwagen.
I think this is a repeat statement. I wanted a notch or a Type 3 Ghia since the 80s. NONE were to be found in the mid-west as far as I could see. Lots of Bugs, busses, and cabrios, but the only type 3s were the slanties and wagons. I nearly settled on a wagon, but I wanted a Notch.
I really do not mind the rot if it is not fatal, Thus far, I have not seen any fatal rust. I am not doing a Steve, but I am being aggressive in replacement. If it can be replaced, I am doing it. I want to keep it original. not rat-rod, not pristine either, just a nice daily driver that will make me happy. I think the rubber replacement scares me more than the rust at this point. Glass and rubber seals have never been my friend. And the glass all has OEM glass etches. I really, really do not want to break any.
Only real safety concern I have is a better seat restraint. I am even considering Cross-X style seat harness. I used to have a set, so not bothered by how they hold you in. But I am blathering again. Just wanting the rain down here to stop, so I can get back to work.
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Ossipon
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92
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Bobnotch
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Location: Kimball, Mi
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: My 1500S Notch Project Reply with quote

Ossipon wrote:
Bobnotch wrote:

You might really want to look thru my "Krunchy" build thread in my signature. It might be a 71 Notch, but it had a lot of the same rust your car has. It needed pan halfs, basically an entire front clip, rockers on both sides (inners and outers), repairs to the rear wheel well arches, along with bumper mounts (front and rear), a rear apron, and a host of other things (starting to read like a grocery list). ...

I have been looking at it. I agree there are many parallels. I am envious of you now working on the 34.
And this may sound like a bunch of "Old Fart" statements, but I wish I had had access in the 70s and 80s to something like Samba then. All my knowledge and skills had to be trial and mostly error. Before there were sources like this, I had to make do with just manuals and guesstimation. Sheet steel, lightwt angle pieces, then finish and seal with roofing tar as anti-rust were my frame fixes then. And sourcing was strictly H-VWs ads and and the salvage yards.
Now, Gretchen is my "prize" for retirement. Yes, I admit it, retirement. My goal is similar to your existing accomplishment. Gretchen once finished is to be my daily driver, replacing my '13 Sportwagen.
I think this is a repeat statement. I wanted a notch or a Type 3 Ghia since the 80s. NONE were to be found in the mid-west as far as I could see. Lots of Bugs, busses, and cabrios, but the only type 3s were the slanties and wagons. I nearly settled on a wagon, but I wanted a Notch.
I really do not mind the rot if it is not fatal, Thus far, I have not seen any fatal rust. I am not doing a Steve, but I am being aggressive in replacement. If it can be replaced, I am doing it. I want to keep it original. not rat-rod, not pristine either, just a nice daily driver that will make me happy. I think the rubber replacement scares me more than the rust at this point. Glass and rubber seals have never been my friend. And the glass all has OEM glass etches. I really, really do not want to break any.
Only real safety concern I have is a better seat restraint. I am even considering Cross-X style seat harness. I used to have a set, so not bothered by how they hold you in. But I am blathering again. Just wanting the rain down here to stop, so I can get back to work.


Ha Ha, I'm as old (or almost) as Tram, in that I turned 60 this year, and I'm semi-retired (had a "widow maker" (98% blockage) heart attack almost a year ago) shortly followed by a stroke 4 days after getting out of the hospital, so work outside the home has dropped off while I recover.
Well, I finished the T-34 in time for the 2012 Type 3 Invasion, and we drove it out there and back, with only killing 3 used starters on the trip (due to heat), and had the main drive in the speedometer break once we got into the Chicago area of Illinois. Other than that, it was a basically trouble free run, considering it had only been on the road less than a month prior. We had tried to go to the Vintage show, but had the engine quit on the way (points tried to come apart, and I'd never had that happen before). I've since sold the car to a couple that live in the UK.

While the 71 Notch was a real learning experience in dealing with rust, it also prepared me for the T-34, as they rust in various places, versus the more common spots of a regular type 3. And I live in the salt belt, so I'm used to rust.

My 65 Notch has a factory sunroof, and it also had rust in the roof, the "C" pillars, and across the front vent section. I'd been looking for a Notch for several years before I bought it off e-bay (I was high bidder, but it didn't reach the reserve price). I contacted the seller, and found out what he wanted for it, and paid him his price. That was back in 1999, and I got that car in late September and started tearing into it. In my case most of the rubber had turned to stone, since it was exposed to the Texas heat, and some of the previous repairs were duct work metal riveted on and bondoed over. Some parts of it were like you mentioned on your own car with the rockers. On mine it was mostly on the left side, versus both sides. Compared to my 71, this one was clean, and just needed it's floors replaced. I went the full restore mode on it though, and pulled the body from the pan, and fixed the left rocker with a later model unit, and custom made some bits to make it look right. While digging in, I found the bottom 2 inches of both rear fenders were rotted out, so they got Squareback pieces welded in, as I couldn't find Notch pieces (remember I live in Michigan, and the Samba was in it's early days back then as far as good used parts go). Joel and Mike weren't selling, the DDB hadn't opened yet, let alone closed, so parts chasing was a lot harder back then. Getting the roof and rear "C" posts fixed was the hard part, but replacing the lower lip of the rear window was the absolute hard part, as it was rusted across it's entire length. These are just some of things you have to deal with when working on/owning an old car. Not to mention I converted the car over to IRS, and painted it a metallic BMW color Blue from Ruby red) a color change. At least I can say I've been driving it off and on for the last 20 years, so I know what I have with it. Cool
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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Ossipon
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: My 1500S Notch Project Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:

Ha Ha, I'm as old (or almost) as Tram, in that I turned 60 this year, and I'm semi-retired (had a "widow maker" (98% blockage) heart attack almost a year ago) shortly followed by a stroke 4 days after getting out of the hospital, so work outside the home has dropped off while I recover.
...

Saw that when you and Tram and VWFye were talking back and forth in regards to The Roach. My sympathies. I stopped doing restorations in the early 90s as I threw my back out then. Restoring a 72 Bavaria. (Still wish I had that car today)
I promised she who must... that I would pay attention and not let myself go overboard like trying to push a 3200 lb car up an incline again. I said not to worry as Gretchen only weighs 1800 lbs. She was not enthused with that answer.
Soo, I will be grinding rust around the pan area this weekend and doing initial fabrication work from the Rt heater channel on over to where the fender bit Mike is sending me. I found my metal form tools. They may look odd, but they work.
They are two 3 foot 4x4s anchored together with a 1/4" gap. I use that for angle forms and both 3 inch and 6 inch drilling pipes cut in half for the curves.
They work well on 14 to 22 gauge with my hammers.
I like your use of BMW blue. I had been thinking of using the BMW Baikal Blue color instead of the original VW 360 Sea Blue color. But that is a good 18 months away.
_________________
Ossipon
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92
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Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: My 1500S Notch Project Reply with quote

Ossipon wrote:
Bobnotch wrote:

Ha Ha, I'm as old (or almost) as Tram, in that I turned 60 this year, and I'm semi-retired (had a "widow maker" (98% blockage) heart attack almost a year ago) shortly followed by a stroke 4 days after getting out of the hospital, so work outside the home has dropped off while I recover.
...

Saw that when you and Tram and VWFye were talking back and forth in regards to The Roach. My sympathies. I stopped doing restorations in the early 90s as I threw my back out then. Restoring a 72 Bavaria. (Still wish I had that car today)
I promised she who must... that I would pay attention and not let myself go overboard like trying to push a 3200 lb car up an incline again. I said not to worry as Gretchen only weighs 1800 lbs. She was not enthused with that answer.
Soo, I will be grinding rust around the pan area this weekend and doing initial fabrication work from the Rt heater channel on over to where the fender bit Mike is sending me. I found my metal form tools. They may look odd, but they work.
They are two 3 foot 4x4s anchored together with a 1/4" gap. I use that for angle forms and both 3 inch and 6 inch drilling pipes cut in half for the curves.
They work well on 14 to 22 gauge with my hammers.
I like your use of BMW blue. I had been thinking of using the BMW Baikal Blue color instead of the original VW 360 Sea Blue color. But that is a good 18 months away.

I feel better hearing about your metal working skills!
My inner fender will need at least 1 small patch on the inside.
The 2 big framehead/pan attachment bolts and 2 14mm pan bolts/washers & I will include them in your shipment.
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69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

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Ossipon
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:21 am    Post subject: My 1500S Notch Project -Rt Pan Reply with quote

So, This is the first post of my real start now that I have most of the bits to begin. This post does not have Pics. It just details the tools and parts for this step.
Have the right tools and parts. This writeup is for when you do NOT have a rotisserie. A Rotisserie would be great, but not everyone has one or has access
1. Tools.
a. Camera- Take pictures before and after to compare what you need, what you have done and what you accomplished and how.
b. “Sawzall” or similar. I am using a cordless version
c. Rotary Grinder/cutter: This is useful for trimming, grinding and preparing the surfaces
+ Plan to use multiple Cutting, Grinding and Flap discs.
d. Vicegrips or similar: More the better. Use for removing small bits that are ground but not quite. And use to hold pan in place while welding
e. Markers like Sharpie and wide wax crayon. Use to mark the grind/cut areas, alignment lines, and so on.
f. Measuring tape and straight edge for alignment and marking
g. Good larger Jack: Primary lifter
h. Second small Jack: To use and lift when you need just a bit more initial clearance.
i. Six Jack stands. Get ones that provide at least 20 inches of lift, as it will make it easier when you are underneath. And six will assure stability when placed correctly
j. Safety clear goggles (Essential)
k. Dust mask(s). I prefer using a heavy duty with cartridge filters when doing some tasks. Otherwise, I am happy to use paper masks
l. MIG welder and Welding Mask: I have used stick and Flux. While in my opinion, you can use flux or stick if you have the skill. I would suggest MIG. And use a Heat Sink when possible.
m. Heavy duty Cordless Drill with 1/8, 3/8 and 1/2 hardened bits
+ 1/8 if you use sheet metal screws to hold things up initially. I would suggest using them only for initial third hand and remove. I used to use them all the time, but realize a good weld is much better.
++ Larger bits to drill into pan where holes were not created.
n. 13mm socket and wrench. To remove bottom frame bolts.
o. 10 and 11mm Socket and Wrench
p. Clamps, C or adjustable Wood Clamps
q. Hammer and Chisel or Chisel Bit Electric/Pneumatic hammer
r. Flashlight and good lighting
s. Wire brushes. Including one which can reach into corners
t. Gloves, Welding and just work gloves.
u. Welding Jacket or at least heavy duty denim shirt jacket.
v. Fan (Gotta keep cool)
w. Heavy Duty Extension cord for Welder and other electrical needs.
x. Big and small screwdrivers with Flat and Philips head.
y. Scraper or scraping knife. One that can be hit with a hammer is better to remove the stuck tar bits.
z. Frame/Body brace if you are not doing a body off replacement. This is needed if you remove the rocker panels as part of the Pan replacement. If you are not replacing rocker panel, then you should make sure the door is always closed as well.
aa. THE SAMBA website. Potentially the most useful tool of all

2. Order the correct parts. These are not in any particular order.
a. NOTE for the ones who may forget: If replacing the notch heater channels, you have two choices, functionality or correct look. There is not supplier for Notch heater channel. If wanting correct look. Check with muffler shops to see if they can form and prepare a rounded inner rocker for inner heater channel. I chose functionality and some fab adaptation
b. Pans can be replaced partial sections or a complete pan. I plan a complete pan replacement, Using a new Gerson type pan replacement is better than a used pan. The Gerson Pan from 18 gauge. Primed and stronger/thicker than OEM. I know there are issues/tasks with a Gerson replacement but in the long run, I will be happier.
+ Plan to Measure, Measure, Measure to assure you fit the pan to the frame.
c. Replacement Battery Brackets
d. Potentially other body parts: Well I did, you may too. I knew once I started, I would find other needs and I do.
e. Sub-Frame Seal: You will need one if doing a full pan replacement, and go ahead and replace the sub-frame Rubber mounts while you can. You will be glad you did.
+ You may also want to replace the sub-frame base cover if it is in poor condition. I did it just because.
f. Sheet metal. NON-Galvanized. There are likely spots you will have to patch and use for other needs. If you can work it, use 20 gauge over 22 gauge. It will be easier to weld without blowthrough.
g. Pre-formed sheet metal: There are many pre-made Type one pieces sold by CIP, ISP, etc which can be fashioned and re-purposed for some bits. I found the CIP Type 1 pillar repair panel and rear panel repair pieces can be repurposed for some of the spots. They have some of the curves already made and look really close to the need once trimmed.
h. Frame Rubber kit: Between Pan and Heater channel and more.
i. Bolt and bracket kit for Frame. Get the full pack. You can use some of the other bolts and bracket anchors later in the job. And you will need to use it for the Driver Side when you do that replacement.
j. POR-15 paint
k. Rubber Roofing Gum. I like this more than silicone caulk. It comes in a nice roll at HomeDepot, Lowes or similar
l. Plastic seat rail replacement with pins. Just do it, I know I will be happier replacing the cracked originals.
m. Optional, but I am doing these
+ Replacement Outer seat rail
++ Replacement Jack Points
+++ Duckbill Drains in potential water collection areas.
1. This may be non-standard, but water has a tendency to collect in rocker panels and the ones I will use are small and have used them previously.

I know I am likely missing tools and parts, but will add them later. Next post will have pictures on the Initial removal process
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Ossipon
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:01 pm    Post subject: Re: My 1500S Notch Project Reply with quote

Myself, I like those little 1 inch square panel spacing grabber blocks sold by HF and Eastwood. Those make for a great 3rd hand at times. I use them (bought a pack of 6 from HF), along with my 3 sets of vice grips, my multiple sets of small c clamps, my 3 pairs of large snap clamps, along with my 4 sets of small snap clamps (can never have enough clamps when welding stuff). I use a 4 1/2 inch grinder with an .040 Metabo 6" cut off wheel, and a standard 4 1/2 grinder that I go back and forth with on grinding wheels (hard) and sanding discs (soft). I also have an air cut off tool (fancy die grinder), along with a 90 degree grinder, plus various hammers and thick steel along with assorted wooden blocks for bashing metal into the shape I want. I also use my now 30 year old Snap On mig welder (it wasn't that old when I got it), and if needed my Miller tig welder, along with my gas torches, as I deal with a lot of rust in the rust belt, and the gas torch is great for getting stubborn bolts loose, or just making room for cutting metal with the sawzall. Sometimes it gets used for custom metal shaping too.
Most of my garage is full of primitive tools, that I use for fabrication work, and have been doing so for the last 25 years or so. In it's little room is a 20 year old 80 gallon V4 Cambell Hausfeld air compressor that powers up my air tools (1 of my best investments) including paint and primer spraying, along with sand blasting, or running a DA sander, or a long board sander (all of them are controlled air leaks).

Something to keep in mind about these cars, is that while it might look like a straight line in places, it's really a long curve. And most of the curves on these cars go both ways (up and down, and side to side). Most everything bolted on these cars are 13mm, 10mm, 17mm, at least the later cars are. Some odd ball parts use a 14mm bolt head, but not many. 6 point sockets are a must though. I use multiple Sharpies, as color doesn't bother me as much as not having one in my back pocket. Otherwise your lists sound pretty complete.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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Ossipon
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:51 am    Post subject: Re: My 1500S Notch Project Reply with quote

Realized I am about two weeks behind in posting anything about progress.
So, R Pan is out and I did an initial test fit of the pan before any welding prep and actual install. Here are pics of the test fit from about two weeks ago. I was pleased at how close it was.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Mr Obvious statement: Yes, I am doing it without removing the body and with a frame on effort. I wish I had a Full body rotisserie or had had access to a rotisserie.
That statement said, I think it is important for those who attempt a pan replacement without a pan off effort should consider the following.
1. YOU HAVE TO BE PATIENT
2. You need to have the Bentley manual and it helps to read thoroughly others posts who have done a pan replacement.
3. Look and study the posted pictures. And remove needed bits accordingly. DON'T FORGET to thoroughly clean the old caulk, tar, sealant, etc
4. Be careful on not missing old pan bits. Grind or cut, it is important they are gone.
5. Initial alignment fit test is critical to identify potential high spots or gaps. These will indicate where you did not thoroughly grind or prep another area. Test how and whether the heater channel bolt holes will fit.
6. Be sure you do the green primer removal before final fit and weld
7. Complete the Jack point weld before you are ready for final fit.
8. Mark the missing holes the new pan while doing the test fit. Then Drill the missing holes on the pan while it is off.
9. BEFORE You begin to weld Be sure to remove any door panels, Dash cover, etc. and frame insulation. No need to ruin anything.

Current status: I have the needed holes drilled on the pan, Front inner fender area prepped, and have done two test fits and the pan lined up with almost all the heater channel nut points. Will try and post more later.
I am ready to do the final fit and begin the tack welds of the pan. I am doing the every 20 mm tack weld model that Bentley manual suggests. Once it is thoroughly tacked, I plan to take it to my friendly auto body shop to do the needed underneath tacking and any other welds. (I hate doing upside down welding.)

Enjoy
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Ossipon
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: My 1500S Notch Project Reply with quote

Looks like you're making great progress. With it being hot and sticky, just try and not over work yourself (no need to kill yourself trying to get it done). Maybe with a little luck you'll fry some of those skeeters, so they'll stop biting. Just remember, it's not a race to get it done. Wink Take your time, and do it right. Cool And have fun, as it'll be a learning experience.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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notchboy
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:52 pm    Post subject: Re: My 1500S Notch Project Reply with quote

Your head is all over the place.

Fix the car - remove everything and visit it later - fix the car first and the rest will come.

Yes I had an Essen in one of my notchbacks. As well as a Frankfurt and several other Blaupunkts.

Focus on getting the car solid, then we can happy play time with the correct details. Laughing Cool
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t3kg wrote:

OK, this thread is over. You win.

Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top
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andybla
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:49 am    Post subject: Re: My 1500S Notch Project Reply with quote

keep up the good work Cool
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Ossipon
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:06 am    Post subject: Re: My 1500S Notch Project Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
Looks like you're making great progress. With it being hot and sticky, just try and not over work yourself (no need to kill yourself trying to get it done). Maybe with a little luck you'll fry some of those skeeters, so they'll stop biting. Just remember, it's not a race to get it done. Wink Take your time, and do it right. Cool And have fun, as it'll be a learning experience.

The Skeeters have begun a love song for me. Oooh, its him again, let's eat. Agreed it is not a race, other tasks and "todo" items only allow me to work on it maybe 10 hours a week. As my prior thread said, I am trying to do my best on restore and not restroy.
I decided when doing the initial needs inventory to remember that it is sometimes it is easier to just replace than repair. Consequently, that is why I am doing both full pan replacement instead of partial on the driver side. That will be next once I get the passenger side done. I have the needed body parts now. They just take up room in the shed. They also give me oomph to get it done as they take up needed room.

notchboy wrote:
Your head is all over the place.
Focus on getting the car solid, then we can happy play time with the correct details. Laughing Cool


Indeed it was, I put that down to new love and inventorying what I have. Embarassed I admit I was all over the place while doing a needs inventory.
I am really focused on only getting the R Pan replaced and the lower front inner fender fixed. Then I will move on to left pan and heater channel. Now that will be when I will celebrate. As I am far more comfy on brakes and engine than body work.
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Ossipon
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: My 1500S Notch Project Reply with quote

Ossipon wrote:
Bobnotch wrote:
Looks like you're making great progress. With it being hot and sticky, just try and not over work yourself (no need to kill yourself trying to get it done). Maybe with a little luck you'll fry some of those skeeters, so they'll stop biting. Just remember, it's not a race to get it done. Wink Take your time, and do it right. Cool And have fun, as it'll be a learning experience.

The Skeeters have begun a love song for me. Oooh, its him again, let's eat. Agreed it is not a race, other tasks and "todo" items only allow me to work on it maybe 10 hours a week. As my prior thread said, I am trying to do my best on restore and not restroy.
I decided when doing the initial needs inventory to remember that it is sometimes it is easier to just replace than repair. Consequently, that is why I am doing both full pan replacement instead of partial on the driver side. That will be next once I get the passenger side done. I have the needed body parts now. They just take up room in the shed. They also give me oomph to get it done as they take up needed room.

notchboy wrote:
Your head is all over the place.
Focus on getting the car solid, then we can happy play time with the correct details. Laughing Cool


Indeed it was, I put that down to new love and inventorying what I have. Embarassed I admit I was all over the place while doing a needs inventory.
I am really focused on only getting the R Pan replaced and the lower front inner fender fixed. Then I will move on to left pan and heater channel. Now that will be when I will celebrate. As I am far more comfy on brakes and engine than body work.



Indeed. The details are either really fun, or the bain of your existence. The stuff you are doing now you either love it or hate it - but necessary nonetheless...
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t3kg wrote:

OK, this thread is over. You win.

Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top
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Ossipon
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: My 1500S Notch Project- update Reply with quote

August arrived and the heat has gotten to me. I had hoped to do the welding of the pan this weekend, but I was melting before I had even begun. Current State
These are two panorama views of both inside and outside edges of the top before welding. The pan is currently held in place with short stove bolts on the edges to be welded,
Plug weld holes are drilled but not visible. Pan seal is in place and heater channel on all holes tightened up
The short inner fender replacement piece is in place, but just loose bolted. This will be permanently attached when I am ready for welding.
Big pain was getting good alignment on the inside and front. Only 9:45 and already nearly 90. Wish I had good spots and sympathetic neighbors or I would do the welding at 3:00 AM and only have to deal with the mosquitos. But, alas. Will get up real early next weekend to weld. A bit more removal of the green paint and a welding I will go.
Something I used for non-welded area pre-sealing and depressions in the Gerson pan; Butyl Rubber. It sticks, squishes well and is almost as annoying as VW sealant.
Enjoy
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92
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andybla
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: My 1500S Notch Project Reply with quote

looking nice and clean Cool
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:12 am    Post subject: Re: My 1500S Notch Project- update Reply with quote

Ossipon wrote:
August arrived and the heat has gotten to me. I had hoped to do the welding of the pan this weekend, but I was melting before I had even begun. Current State
These are two panorama views of both inside and outside edges of the top before welding. The pan is currently held in place with short stove bolts on the edges to be welded,
Plug weld holes are drilled but not visible. Pan seal is in place and heater channel on all holes tightened up
The short inner fender replacement piece is in place, but just loose bolted. This will be permanently attached when I am ready for welding.
Big pain was getting good alignment on the inside and front. Only 9:45 and already nearly 90. Wish I had good spots and sympathetic neighbors or I would do the welding at 3:00 AM and only have to deal with the mosquitos. But, alas. Will get up real early next weekend to weld. A bit more removal of the green paint and a welding I will go.
Something I used for non-welded area pre-sealing and depressions in the Gerson pan; Butyl Rubber. It sticks, squishes well and is almost as annoying as VW sealant.
Enjoy
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You're making great progress. Those big panels are the easy part, especially since they cover so much. It's when you start fixing the little holes that you drive yourself crazy. You'll spend a day or so on each floor pan, but spend a week doing that wrap in section that Mike sent you. It just works out like that. When I was doing the T-34, I put the pan halves (used that he got from Neil) in at Russ's house, and also did the front clip. I spent 9 days doing all of that 10 years ago (when I was 50 at the time), and that included all of the trimming and test fitting before anything got tack welded or welded in solid. Those were some long days doing that, but we made it more fun with Russ and Sue (my wife)taking pictures along with all the joking and BS ing going on (lots of VW talk). The evenings were spent drinking beer, and watching Russ moderate the Samba forums for Everett, along with him down loading his camera to his lap top. Good times, and I still miss him. He did follow along with my (Sue's) posting of the build pictures of the T-34, but never got to see it finished. His wife did though.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: My 1500S Notch Project- update Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:


You're making great progress. Those big panels are the easy part, especially since they cover so much. ...

Thanks for this. And your encouragement, along with Mike and the others has kept me reasonably focused. The last pan I replaced was the 59 single cab back in the late 80s. It was a cinch compared to this. And this was my third (or is it 4th pan) I have replaced partial or full.
I was pleased with my welding, could tell I had penetration, but no burn through which is amazing since I had not really welded like this since the 59 Single cab and it was Stick welding.
Three things I have learned in replacing a pan without a rotisserie or Pan off.
1. Be patient. Just when you think you have the pan fitted, you notice a gap that requires grinding or bending.
2. A Dremel tool is your friend, although you will use up a lot of little disks to get to those tight spots.
3. You gotta mask up with the welding. Even with a good fan, the fumes are a danger.
I will be addressing the attaching of the inner fender over Labor Day. Hopefully the weather will cooperate.
Like you and I think others on the forum, the Type 3 is just more interesting than a bug or even a T1 Ghia. Unfortunately, (and I think I have said it elsewhere), Gretchen is like a reverse Clairol line. The closer I look, the more I see what is wrong. As in:
Just bought a replacement front beam as I see two rust holes right below the tower. Found them when removing caked on grease. Both are the size of a dime and on the curve by the bearing. Will replace that when I attack the front apron and fenders. At least my mortality level of Gretchen is not like that T34 for sale right now. I can handle the rust replacement level, but could never attempt that.
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VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: My 1500S Notch Project Reply with quote

I'll be honest, I've done 4 or 5 Bug floor pans with the body still on. Those weren't bad. When I did the 71 Notch, I built the pan assembly first, then fitted the body to it.Then removed the body, and blasted the entire pan, primed (epoxy) then painted and clear coated it. Then it was the body that got blasted, and repaired. then it got blasted again and primed off. Lots of work went into that car in the 6 months (June thru December) it took to rebuild. I think I took 1 full weekend off when I did that car (to recharge the batteries). I had parts here waiting to go on, while I was working other parts of it. With stuff taking 5 to 7 days to get here from California, I had to plan ahead on what I needed. I also had some long days out in the shop after work. Some days I had more time in the shop than I had at work. Those were the toughest days (little sleep).
You might want to use some self tappers and anchor the pan to the tunnel edge, and tack it in place before it gets too hot out, then either start earlier, or work late at night on just welding it. I've done that before, on days when it was 90+ with 85% humidity, watching the weather channel plus the local weather so I knew which days/nights to do that on. Nothing worse than dripping dripping sweat covering your welding lens, or getting sweat into your eyes.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: My 1500S Notch Project Reply with quote

Hey this pan half stuff is not sexy, but it looks great! Lay that foundation for sure. Keep up the good work - It will cool down soon.
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t3kg wrote:

OK, this thread is over. You win.

Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: My 1500S Notch Project Reply with quote

notchboy wrote:
Hey this pan half stuff is not sexy, but it looks great! Lay that foundation for sure. Keep up the good work - It will cool down soon.

Yeah, in my case it'll cool down and snow, then well get a few months of 32*F weather before the real cold stuff hits, where it's a month to 6 weeks of below 32*F weather. Those 2 weeks of below 0*F are the real bitch to work on a type 3. Usually I'm having to work on the daily POS with dripping snow and frozen hands just to be able to go to work the next day.
Your cooler weather and ours are 2 different things (60 versus 30, or 0*f). Shocked Hell, even up in the mountains (while snow boarding) for you guys is STILL warmer than us.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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Ossipon
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:40 pm    Post subject: My 1500S Notch Project Reply with quote

Okay, so have the passenger inner fender repair partially done. For those that don't remember. This was before.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

And this is current state.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I have a bit more hole filling and metal bending. And then the bondo! That is tomorrow.

After this is finished, I will start resolving the connection between the outer rocker metal and the heater channel.
As either Bobnotch or Mike said, it is the fitting and refitting of metal pieces that take the longest.
Enjoy
_________________
Ossipon
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92
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