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iliketowalk Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2011 Posts: 614 Location: Northern CA
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:16 pm Post subject: AAZ dipstick options |
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This thing is an abomination, let's just start there...
Replacing the coolant hoses, notice the dipstick is a bit loose, might as well fix while I have all this extra room. Looks like the last guy decided to shove some copper pipe on the dipstick tube, hit it with some RTV and call it good... Doesn't really positively lock in place. I have no idea if this is a calibrated dipstick or not based on trans angle etc, I'm dumping the oil after finishing the coolant hoses and that will be the first refill.
23 - O-Ring - 7,3X2,4 (N90032203)
24 - Washer - 8,1X11,7 (076115643)
So is the washer an interference fit in the block, and the o-ring secures the dipstick tube? Does this also work in an AAZ?
I am not in love with the dipstick behind the license plate, so I'm happy to convert to another way - what are my options and part availability?
My oil filler tube is the one piece style, and from what I've seen you need the two-piece style to use the oil filler tube cap dipstick?
How much oil will the AAZ with DV pan take? _________________ 1986 Weekender "Birch" |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: AAZ dipstick options |
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If you have the dipstick like what is pictured in the ETKA sketch you posted, it is the stock '83+ diesel vanagon dipstick.
The hole it passes through in the AAZ block is larger than the hole in the 1.6TD. There isn't really an issue with gluing it in place as long as it doesn't leak. RTV wouldn't be my first choice. I'd go with something a bit more robust. Right Stuff would be better.
I really like being able to check the oil from the license plate door. Needing to clear the hatch to check the oil is enough of a pain that I'm sure I'd check it less often than I should if I didn't have access at the license plate.
The '83 dipstick is better than the '82 dipstick-in-the-tube. Because it is centered on the oil pan, it is MUCH less sensitive to slight variations in level. With the '82 dipstick in the tube at the extreme back corner of the pan, even a slight almost imperceptible change from level will affect the oil level reading noticeably. It's also a mild irritation to have deal with the '82 dipstick when adding oil.
There isn't a factory spec for the amount of oil for an AAZ in a Vanagon because it was never offered. I would use 4.5q but the usual disclaimers apply. |
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iliketowalk Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2011 Posts: 614 Location: Northern CA
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: AAZ dipstick options |
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It's similar to what is pictured, I'm not sure if it's OE or if someone made it because it has the mounting tab that connects on the end of the alternator bolt which isn't shown in the ETKA diagram?
At any rate, I agree that gluing it back in place is the easiest way to go - will grab some Great Stuff, thanks for the suggestion!
Not to muddy the waters further, but I see that FAS and some other places sell a block off plate for the filler tube - is that not preferred because at 50* filling through the valve cover takes ages to drain down, or? _________________ 1986 Weekender "Birch" |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: AAZ dipstick options |
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The stock JX dipstick tube has a tab that connects to the alt.
Make sure the tube and block are clean of any oil before attempting to seal them. After wiping them, a shot of brake clean will remove any residue.
I prefer having the license plat dipstick and filler because emptying the hatch area to check or add oil is a pain, especially if you're on a trip with everything packed there. |
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iliketowalk Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2011 Posts: 614 Location: Northern CA
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: AAZ dipstick options |
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We had that problem too - then we got the hightop... _________________ 1986 Weekender "Birch" |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: AAZ dipstick options |
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I really like my high top, but avoid putting anything hard or heavy up there. |
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iliketowalk Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2011 Posts: 614 Location: Northern CA
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: AAZ dipstick options |
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So where am I supposed to keep my cannon ball collection then!? Gah. _________________ 1986 Weekender "Birch" |
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CHARLIE-DONT-SURF Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007 Posts: 332 Location: Cow County, UK
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: AAZ dipstick options |
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Use OE AAZ dipstick guide tube. Cut it off right above where it exits block then drill it (carefully) to OS diameter of JX guide tube. Smear of sealant then it will push in very snugly and be oil tight.
If you don't like T3 dipstick and want to use AAZ, then dipstick goes all the way up into the handle. Grip dipstick in vice near to handle then drift handle up as if trying to seperate the two parts ( I use an old 10 mm ring spanner) the dipstick has enough length to reach sump. If you're clever and patient you can use the marked max/min marks without having to remark it.
The handle will be too long and hit engine lid. Cut it off to a 1" 'stump' , drill a hole through the stump then use a split ring (like the grenade pull rings you put keys on).
Either/either as they say. Both work well. Using OE guide and dipstick works well with I4 petrol engines where you struggle to neatly attach the T3 guide tube due to lack of injection pump! _________________ https://www.facebook.com/Cow-County-Looms-1010851485971680/ |
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treatland Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2013 Posts: 45 Location: el cerrito, ca
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: AAZ dipstick options |
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bumping this old thread. my 82 diesel filler/dipstick tube neck gave up the ghost and am looking to convert to the newer 83+ style tube.
has anyone just used the factory aaz dip stick and extended it? I have a TIG welder and could elongate the factory aaz dip stick, or try and convert to the JX 90 degree dip stick tube and stick...would rather avoid doing this because of the larger dip stick tube hole in the aaz block. _________________ crappy 1982 diesel vanagon westfalia, 1.9 AAZ, DK transaxle, air to air intercooler, giles pump sitting in a box next to my desk ready to go on one day...
Don't try to be like Jackie. There is only one Jackie. Study computers instead. - jackie chan |
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Gnarlodious Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2013 Posts: 2323 Location: Adobe Jungle USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: AAZ dipstick options |
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It’s a bit of a job. I used the AAZ tube, I think I remember it extends down into the crankcase some distance and has a ridge to stop it from falling inside too far. I bought a steel tube the right diameter to extend it to the license plate hole, bent then welded on a tab to fasten it to the alternator mount. I don’t remember what I used to seal the tube into the hole, probably Permatex® Black, as it is oil proof and high heat. Whatever it was, it has worked well for years.
For the dipstick, I used the perimeter spring from an old pop-open windshield sunshade. Extremely important to determine WHERE the dipstick hits the oil pan. Don’t be like “The Guy” who had his dipstick laying flat on the floor and killed multiple engines before figuring it out. It might take a helper and/or a magnet (I think I used a compass) to determine where the dipstick hits the aluminum pan inside without bending. The dipstick is spring steel and brazing it may affect its durability. I scored the dipstick and used a copper crimp tube with a neoprene washer to seal the top end, parts I found in the hardware store. It’s important the stopper be secure so the dipstick stays accurate. I bent the dipstick into a finger hole and squeezed an aluminum cable ferrule to lock it into place.
To determine the lowest oil level, the best way is to remove the vacuum pump and use an electric drill with a socket to rotate the oil pump. When you get good continuous resistance, score your dipstick a little above that level. As for the high mark, I simply added 4 quarts and scored it there. I’ve been running this dipstick from my license plate opening for several years and it’s worked well. _________________ Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit |
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treatland Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2013 Posts: 45 Location: el cerrito, ca
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: AAZ dipstick options |
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CHARLIE-DONT-SURF wrote: |
Use OE AAZ dipstick guide tube. Cut it off right above where it exits block then drill it (carefully) to OS diameter of JX guide tube. Smear of sealant then it will push in very snugly and be oil tight.
If you don't like T3 dipstick and want to use AAZ, then dipstick goes all the way up into the handle. Grip dipstick in vice near to handle then drift handle up as if trying to seperate the two parts ( I use an old 10 mm ring spanner) the dipstick has enough length to reach sump. If you're clever and patient you can use the marked max/min marks without having to remark it.
The handle will be too long and hit engine lid. Cut it off to a 1" 'stump' , drill a hole through the stump then use a split ring (like the grenade pull rings you put keys on).
Either/either as they say. Both work well. Using OE guide and dipstick works well with I4 petrol engines where you struggle to neatly attach the T3 guide tube due to lack of injection pump! |
I gave this a shot just now and ran out of dipstick before i even hit oil (spring steel portion seperated from plastic handle). This is after fully draining the oil and filling with precisely 4.7 quarts of oil. _________________ crappy 1982 diesel vanagon westfalia, 1.9 AAZ, DK transaxle, air to air intercooler, giles pump sitting in a box next to my desk ready to go on one day...
Don't try to be like Jackie. There is only one Jackie. Study computers instead. - jackie chan |
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treatland Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2013 Posts: 45 Location: el cerrito, ca
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: AAZ dipstick options |
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Gnarlodious wrote: |
For the dipstick, I used the perimeter spring from an old pop-open windshield sunshade. Extremely important to determine WHERE the dipstick hits the oil pan. Don’t be like “The Guy” who had his dipstick laying flat on the floor and killed multiple engines before figuring it out. It might take a helper and/or a magnet (I think I used a compass) to determine where the dipstick hits the aluminum pan inside without bending. The dipstick is spring steel and brazing it may affect its durability. I scored the dipstick and used a copper crimp tube with a neoprene washer to seal the top end, parts I found in the hardware store. It’s important the stopper be secure so the dipstick stays accurate. I bent the dipstick into a finger hole and squeezed an aluminum cable ferrule to lock it into place. |
Not sure I'm quite following you on the "floor" part. According to this diagram, the factory aaz dipstick passes through an oil baffle plate then into the pan. I have no clue if mine has the baffle or what as I have never has the pan off during my onwership.
_________________ crappy 1982 diesel vanagon westfalia, 1.9 AAZ, DK transaxle, air to air intercooler, giles pump sitting in a box next to my desk ready to go on one day...
Don't try to be like Jackie. There is only one Jackie. Study computers instead. - jackie chan |
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Gnarlodious Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2013 Posts: 2323 Location: Adobe Jungle USA
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:00 am Post subject: Re: AAZ dipstick options |
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The exploded picture you posted shows the passenger car (Golf, Jetta) AAZ oil pan. The ‘baffle’ is called a windage tray, its purpose is to prevent oil from splashing up and getting whipped to a foam by the crankshaft, in case of too much oil and/or hard cornering. The oil can get so aerated that it loses pressure and in an extreme case your engine seizes from lack of lubrication. Happened to my father in the 1990s with a diesel Rabbit, before the windage tray was invented, because he poured in too much oil. Burned up an engine.
The windage tray is optional, but a close examination of the seam where the pan bolts up will show the layer between aluminum and cast iron, if it exists.
The dipstick problem happens because the AAZ in a Vanagon is a custom job, the engine was never factory installed in a Vanagon. That is why you use the stock Vanagon 1.6NA pickup tube, or preferably the JX system rather than the Jetta pickup tube. The trouble arises with the Vanagon’s dipstick because the oil pan bottom (floor) needs to be level while the engine is tilted. Not a problem in the AAZ passenger car because the engine is perpendicular, so the dipstick bottoms out positively and doesn’t go any further. But the Vanagon oil pan floor is at an angle which can cause the flexible dipstick to bend and slide along the bottom. A sad example of this was “The Guy” who ruined three engines (discussion in a post from the last year) before he figured out the dipstick reading was inaccurate because it was bending on the bottom of the oil pan. This is why the AAZ install especially NEEDS a good and accurate oil pressure gauge. Mine even has an alarm for low pressure. _________________ Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit |
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valvecovergasket Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 1492 Location: pnw
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:11 am Post subject: Re: AAZ dipstick options |
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treatland wrote: |
Not sure I'm quite following you on the "floor" part. According to this diagram, the factory aaz dipstick passes through an oil baffle plate then into the pan. I have no clue if mine has the baffle or what as I have never has the pan off during my onwership. |
its easy to tell just looking at where the seal surface is, the windage trays have an integrated seal and take the place of the standalone seals.
you could give the seal a poke and if it feels like theres metal in, youve got the windage tray.
treatland wrote: |
bumping this old thread. my 82 diesel filler/dipstick tube neck gave up the ghost and am looking to convert to the newer 83+ style tube.
has anyone just used the factory aaz dip stick and extended it? I have a TIG welder and could elongate the factory aaz dip stick, or try and convert to the JX 90 degree dip stick tube and stick...would rather avoid doing this because of the larger dip stick tube hole in the aaz block. |
as for building a dipstick, we did more or less what youre describing on my tdi swap.
took the standard fwd car dipstick tube, and cut it in half with a tube cutter. pounded the lower half (with the splined bits) into the block with a touch of sealer like usual.
connected that secured lower half to the top half of the tube with some high pressure -6 (i think... you can check the size) transmission cooler hose. pressure being irrelevant, but needed some hose that could withstand the sliding of the dipstick inside of it.
then i built a little bracket to secure the top half of the dipstick tube to one of the alternator mounting ears.
this also allows you to use the orange plastic dipstick top, just like you would on the fwd car installation, and the top of the fwd car dipstick for a leak free secure fit.
then, in order to get the length you need, the dipstick itself was a diesel van dipstick (available from vancafe, brickwerks, etc) cut and tig'd to the very top of the old fwd car stick, adjusting for height to use the original diesel van stick marks for level.
all of this is then accessible from behind the license plate, like stock, and fits great with no leaks.
and all of those parts are available new, minus the metal fwd car dipstick tube that pounds into the block. and you dont really need any exotic diesel van parts - other than the easy to find diesel van dip stick. everything else is cheap-o fwd parts - the fwd dipstick, the orange thing it clicks into, the bit of heavy duty hose, etc. _________________ MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com
gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread |
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treatland Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2013 Posts: 45 Location: el cerrito, ca
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:24 am Post subject: Re: AAZ dipstick options |
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Ok, that's pretty much what I assumed was going on. Thanks so much for the in-depth explanation, I really appreciate it.
I was able to figure out a solution using the factory AAZ dip stick I have a backup aaz sitting on an engine stand, where the PO had cut down the dip stick to about 4" for some reason. I simply pressed out the short dip stick piece, cut my original AAZ dip stick and extended it approximately 2-2.5". With the engine having 4.7qts of oil in after being thoroughly drained, the new "extended" AAZ dipstick now reads "full" at 3/4 of the hash marks. So anything lower than the hash marks and I'm in trouble.
It's a slight bummer that I'll need to remove the engine lid each time to check the oil but I'm pretty anal about oil changes and maintenance, so it's not much of a bother. _________________ crappy 1982 diesel vanagon westfalia, 1.9 AAZ, DK transaxle, air to air intercooler, giles pump sitting in a box next to my desk ready to go on one day...
Don't try to be like Jackie. There is only one Jackie. Study computers instead. - jackie chan |
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valvecovergasket Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 1492 Location: pnw
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:33 am Post subject: Re: AAZ dipstick options |
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popping the cover is pretty trivial, but having to empty the whole rear area of camping supplies to get to that point is a pain haha
and we looked at a few different ways to do it, but landed on what i described as the diesel van dipstick is really thin and easy to bend/push/flex all the way through that curve.
we thought initially to extend the fwd stick also but its too firm to easily make that corner. _________________ MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com
gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:46 am Post subject: Re: AAZ dipstick options |
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I consider being able to check the oil from the license plate one of the basics of any conversion. Being able to fill from the license plate is a nice touch which is worth the effort, IMO, but not as necessary as being able to check the level. Without an accessible dipstick from the license plate hole, those extra times when you fill up the fuel but consider it too much of a PITA to empty the hatch to check the engine oil level significantly increase the likelihood that you will some day ruin your engine because of it.
I've made several dipstick tubes for the mk3/Mk4 diesel engines so that the level can be read from the license plate. It is not difficult to do. I've used steel tubing (brake line). The stock 1.6TD dipstick tube is still available new for cheap. You can use it complete rather than trying to weld it to the stock AAZ dipstick. The dipstick tube end is also available new and glues right onto the steel brake line. Easy peasy. |
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RolandD Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2017 Posts: 247 Location: Menomonee Falls, Wis
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: AAZ dipstick options |
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On my 82 diesel wstfalia, the plastic fill tube and cap wore out at 300K+ miles. I found an old Auto-stick shift oil tank cap with the built in dip stick. It came with the female portion it attaches to. I made a steel tube and flange to replace the plastic tube, and included some brass tube that extends, but does not pull out, for filling like the original.
Roland |
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treatland Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2013 Posts: 45 Location: el cerrito, ca
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: AAZ dipstick options |
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good points. this will work for now, next time i'm at pick n pull i'll grab a super long dipstick from a ford van or something and make some sort of magic happen with the AAZ tube. thanks everybody! _________________ crappy 1982 diesel vanagon westfalia, 1.9 AAZ, DK transaxle, air to air intercooler, giles pump sitting in a box next to my desk ready to go on one day...
Don't try to be like Jackie. There is only one Jackie. Study computers instead. - jackie chan |
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