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alejandroo1967
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2021
Posts: 25
Location: VA
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 Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:13 pm Post subject: turbo bug |
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hello guys does anyone know anything about a hideaway cb racing turbo kit? i was thinking about it for my bored out 1600dp. they dropped the price a little and was wonndering a few things.
how much power can it make?
can you stick with carbs?
do you have to get new internals if you run low boost?
and some other questions.
im pretty new to the whole boosted vw thing. any help is much appretiated thank you guys so much! |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12730
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: turbo bug |
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I am not seeing a kit on CB's site for a 1600 DP. Did I miss it?
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slayer61
Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2021
Posts: 1018
Location: CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: turbo bug |
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| oprn wrote: |
| I am not seeing a kit on CB's site for a 1600 DP. Did I miss it? |
Claude has a couple. But as you say... nothing dedicated to 1600 DP
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/7075.htm |
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alejandroo1967
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2021
Posts: 25
Location: VA
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12730
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: turbo bug |
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The only one I am aware of it that one from Brazil someone did a thread on a while back but no recent feed back on it.
If you want to do a 1600 these days it's mostly a case of fabricating your own bits. Clonebug on this site started out simple with modest expectations and has now taken it to the max for a street engine. Find his build thread, it's worth a read through.
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67rustavenger 
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9767
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: turbo bug |
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| oprn wrote: |
The only one I am aware of it that one from Brazil someone did a thread on a while back but no recent feed back on it.
https://www.spaturbo.com.br/kit-turbo-vw-fusca-car...-turbina/p
If you want to do a 1600 these days it's mostly a case of fabricating your own bits. Clonebug on this site started out simple with modest expectations and has now taken it to the max for a street engine. Find his build thread, it's worth a read through. |
Helped ya here! 
buggee hasn't updated his thread in a while. I imagine he's building a new engine to go with the kit.
The kit was something like $870 all in including shipping. YMMV.
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alejandroo1967
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2021
Posts: 25
Location: VA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: turbo bug |
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| oprn wrote: |
The only one I am aware of it that one from Brazil someone did a thread on a while back but no recent feed back on it.
If you want to do a 1600 these days it's mostly a case of fabricating your own bits. Clonebug on this site started out simple with modest expectations and has now taken it to the max for a street engine. Find his build thread, it's worth a read through. |
did you see the link i sent? |
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Lo Cash John
Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2004
Posts: 2246
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: turbo bug |
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Welcome to the VW world. It's a lot of fun.
Here's some details on that "kit".
The turbo header is made with 1-5/8" primary tubes. These are to large for pretty much any engine under 2000cc. For a 1600 turbo you want primary tubes of 1-3/8" or 1-1/2" maximum. The larger the tube and the more turbo lag you get. With the 1-5/8 tubes your 1600 will be at 5000 RPM or more before the turbo starts to build boost, then it'll be time shift and start over again. No boost is no fun.
The parts in that kit are configured for blowing through dual carbs like webers or dellortos. If you don't have those, you'll need them.
To take things backwards a step or three, can you post pics of your engine and tell us how you use it? In other words, is it a daily driver? Is it a weekend fun car? Are you wanting to build a fast race motor?
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panel
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2001
Posts: 1091
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: turbo bug |
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| alejandroo1967 wrote: |
can you stick with carbs?
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Kit says either EFI or carburetors.
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12730
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:41 am Post subject: Re: turbo bug |
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| alejandroo1967 wrote: |
| did you see the link i sent? |
Yes I did and that is why I posted what I did. Low Cash John says it well.
| Lo Cash John wrote: |
Here's some details on that "kit".
The turbo header is made with 1-5/8" primary tubes. These are to large for pretty much any engine under 2000cc. For a 1600 turbo you want primary tubes of 1-3/8" or 1-1/2" maximum. The larger the tube and the more turbo lag you get. With the 1-5/8 tubes your 1600 will be at 5000 RPM or more before the turbo starts to build boost, then it'll be time shift and start over again. No boost is no fun.
The parts in that kit are configured for blowing through dual carbs like webers or dellortos. If you don't have those, you'll need them. |
What you want to do will yield the very best HP increase/dollar spent of any upgrade to a stock VW engine possible but unfortunately no one in North America sells a kit specifically to do that anymore! Everyone seems to favor putting a turbo on an already high dollar radically modified engine.
With some basic tools, skills, time, research and common sense you can build your own "kit" to make a very satisfying and impressive power increase. I did it 30+ years ago and Clonebug did it more recently. Keep it to 8 psi boost and there is a lot of performance there for very little hassle and is easy on the budget. Get greedy on the power and it gets complicated.
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Last edited by oprn on Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Lo Cash John
Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2004
Posts: 2246
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:52 am Post subject: Re: turbo bug |
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The Brazilian kit looks like a very good option. I’ve never dealt with that company but I do deal with IMohr (in Brazil) and it’s been pretty straightforward. I can ask my contact if he knows anything about that turbo kit or the manufacturer.
Also, check with Joel Mohr at Mohr Performance in Hesperia, CA. He used to offer a turbo kit for 1600 engines.
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More brains than bucks...Believe it or not!!
If you actually drive your VW, you need www.AirMapp.com
My boss told me I need to work on my mutli-tasking. So now when I use the bathroom at work I surf The Samba on my iPhone. |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12730
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:37 am Post subject: Re: turbo bug |
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It looks like Mohr Performance in Hesperia, CA is no longer a thing. A web search brings up dead ends.
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Ohio Tom
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Joined: February 09, 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: Marshallville Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: turbo bug |
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Putting a turbo on an otherwise stock engine is a temporary thing.
Just plan it not lasting very long.
You'll hurt something for sure...
It's like buying a 571 blower and sticking it on a stock 350 chebby.
Yeah, it will work... but...
Do yourself a favor and spend your money on a quality big cc motor first with a plan later to turbo it..
You will have 150+ reliable HP without all the fuss of a turbo.
The when you are ready for 250hp, you can add a turbo (and a new transaxle).
Doesn't have to be crazy exotic either.
I have been building many "mild street torquer" motors lately.
Big as you want, mild cam, heads and compression. Letting the displacement and heads make the HP. More torque than HP. Reliable, fun, fast.
Turbo ready too.... |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12730
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: turbo bug |
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That was purely opinion Tom.
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buguy
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 4915
Location: Port Orange, FL
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: turbo bug |
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| Ohio Tom wrote: |
Putting a turbo on an otherwise stock engine is a temporary thing.
Just plan it not lasting very long.
You'll hurt something for sure...
It's like buying a 571 blower and sticking it on a stock 350 chebby.
Yeah, it will work... but...
Do yourself a favor and spend your money on a quality big cc motor first with a plan later to turbo it..
You will have 150+ reliable HP without all the fuss of a turbo.
The when you are ready for 250hp, you can add a turbo (and a new transaxle).
Doesn't have to be crazy exotic either.
I have been building many "mild street torquer" motors lately.
Big as you want, mild cam, heads and compression. Letting the displacement and heads make the HP. More torque than HP. Reliable, fun, fast.
Turbo ready too.... |
I have to respectfully disagree. I ran a draw through stock 1600 from 2007 to 2019. In 2019 i noticed it had a little blow by so i tore it down. It was a perfect virgin case, so i put it aside and bought a different junk 1600. Took that and put efi, water to air intercooler, and of course a turbo. Pushed 30 psi through it for about a year and a half (stuck a bigger cam in it somewhere in that time to try for more power too). Even dailied it for a couple months. I built a mild stroker out of that virgin case or that stock engine would still be in there. That stock engine turbo was probably the best bang for the buck I've ever had. Solid as a rock and i was really rough on it. I feel it's the smartest way to get started in turbo. It's the least expensive engine you can learn on.
I forgot to mention i was on E85, so i don't know if that made it better or worse. Except for when i was using it for a daily. She got 91 octane and 15 psi for that time.
Just another perspective. |
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Dauz
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010
Posts: 1790
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: turbo bug |
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I’m the unlucky one who broke a lot of shit while NA  |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12730
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:23 am Post subject: Re: turbo bug |
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There is absolutely no reason a stock 1600 with a mild turbo will not last as long and make as impressive power for it's size as a bored and stroked N/A engine. It will have better street manners, make that power at a lower rpm, have good fuel economy, retain critical functions like heat and defrost and cost 1/4 to 1/3 of what an equivalent N/A engine will.
That is not just an opinion, it's a proven fact. I have been there and done both.
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Ohio Tom
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: Marshallville Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: turbo bug |
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OK, so your findings are "facts" and mine are "opinions".
Got it.. thanks..
It's OK to dis-agree with me.. I totally expect that...
Contrary to the "facts" , There are plenty of reasons why a bone stock motor won't last as long as a well built stroker :
The 4 dowels on the crank will fail eventually. Seen it too many times. The stock bolt fails and tosses the flywheel. 8-dowel and chromoly gland nut are required in any performance application.
The stock rod bolts are screaming. Sure they might work.. Maybe... I don't like risking things like that on my reputation. A good set of rods is cheap. A failure means total scrap. Play at your own risk.
Valve float will happen at 4,500rpm on a stock motor. Less when turbocharged. HD springs and Chromoly retainers will help dramatically with motor life. Avoiding pounded seats, broken valves, broken springs, pulled retainers, dropped valves...
Rocker shafts will blow the clips off. Pushrods will flex. Simple easy upgrades to a stock engine.
The exh valve guides will eventually crack and flake apart and potentially hurt your turbo. Even happens on big cc turbo motors. Seen it many times. Cutting back the guides and bosses flush with the port is standard stuff for turbo motors.
Opinion.. Fact... Whatever...
Honestly, I can't believe that I even have to say these things.
These are all well known failures of a stock motor in the VW world.
I mean, why do they make 8-dowel cranks? Solid shafts? Chromoly retainers and pushrods? Rods with ARP 2000bolts?
Why do folks waste their money on that stuff?
Not because of my opinions.... |
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toxicavenger70
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2019
Posts: 871
Location: CO
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: turbo bug |
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| oprn wrote: |
| It looks like Mohr Performance in Hesperia, CA is no longer a thing. A web search brings up dead ends. |
I think he is running his shop out of his house now. |
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madmike
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 5292
Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: turbo bug |
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X2 with Tom 
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