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Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car
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Zylinderkopf
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:12 am    Post subject: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

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OK - I can't figure this out - need some help from you guys.

This is a 1971 Super Beetle with a mostly stock 1600 with Pertonix II electronic ignition installed about 7 years ago.

I can start the engine, let it idle, run up RPMs, set timing...all works great.

But when I put it in gear and drive about 1/2 mile down the road the engine starts loosing power, doesn't respond to throttle, stutters and quits. It won't start for a while, then, after about 5 minutes it reluctantly starts again; runs for about 1/2 mile and starts loosing power. again, shuts down. ..

I originally thought it's a fuel supply issue. I checked the carburetor for squirt and cleaned jets - all looked good but the problem persisted.

I looked at my old fuel pump and decided to replace it with a new one - Problem persisted.

I double checked that the fuel line doesn't rest on the manifold (which might cause vapor lock). I even cracked opened the fuel tank filler cap a little ...but problem persisted.

I put on a spare carburetor - problem still persists!

Any thoughts?
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lboos
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

You sure have some nice looking VW's.
Sounds to me like fuel starvation from the tank to the fuel pump ?
I had something like this happen on my then 67 bug, found out someone had replaced one of the fuel line with a hose that was not meant for fuel and it kept falling apart and ending up with small parts of rubber in the carb. I would clean it out and it would be good for a short time, changed the hose for one that was meant for fuel, no more prob's.
I noticed in the pic. you have changed the lines to and from the fuel pump that don't look like the reg. fuel [braded] VW lines, but with all the VW bugs you have I'm sure they are correct. how about the sock filter in the tank ? has someone added a plastic filter near the tank ? the "braded fuel line" coming from your tank in the engine comp. is the one that I had trouble with, just a few ideas from someone trying to learn, good luck. Wink
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

Take the air cleaner off and go for a drive. Any better?

Also, what do the plugs look like?

Any extra fuel filters along the fuel line path?

Kinked gas line?
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Starbucket
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

Remove tank sending unit and with a flashlight look for a clogged sock filter on tank outlet or a bunch of rust covering it. Try to blow on the fuel pump supply line from the tank if you can't the line is plugged.
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Q-Dog
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

Plugged tank vent? Drive with the gas cap loose and see if that helps.
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APPLEGREENVW
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

I think your Pertonix II electronic ignition is on it way out. Try a 034 distributor with points.
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sb001
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

Zylinderkopf wrote:


I looked at my old fuel pump and decided to replace it with a new one - Problem persisted.


I notice that you have an alternator-style pump, even though you are running a generator. Was your old pump an alternator-style also, or was it a generator-style pump (angled vs upright?) The alternator-style pumps require a shorter fuel pump rod than the generator-style:

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If your old pump was an upright generator-style pump, but the new one is alternator-style, and you didn't replace the rod with the shorter one, you may have damaged your new pump, or bent the pushrod.
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Zylinderkopf
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

thank you everybody for your ideas.
I did refurbish the fuel tank recently and coming to think of it - the trouble appears to have started afterwards. I'm going to check for a kinked hose below the tank and will take another look at how I've routed the vent hoses. On the '71 SB there are two small vents on the driver side of the tank and one on the passenger side. That one has a small hose running to a "T". There is this long plastic tube running just behind the dash with two nipples on each side. I've connected the vent hoses to this tube - but not sure I did this correctly.

Does anyone have experience with this system and how likely is it that misrouted vent hoses would cause the problem I'm having?
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sb001
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

Here you go:

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Michael Ambrozik
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:41 am    Post subject: Re: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

Did you check to make sure the fuel shut off on the carb is working. I don't see any #15 black wire going to it.
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Zylinderkopf
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

Michael Ambrozik wrote:
Did you check to make sure the fuel shut off on the carb is working. I don't see any #15 black wire going to it.


yes - thank you Michael - it's connected and working.
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Zylinderkopf
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

sb001 wrote:
Here you go:


Thank you sb001.

I didn't get back to the bug again this weekend - but will pick up where I left off next weekend.
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Max Welton
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:19 am    Post subject: Re: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

Maybe it's the condenser. If you just let it idle for the 2+ minutes, does it still die?

Max
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

if it was mine make sure the fuel line is intact and all hose connections are good and not sucking air.

run it till it quits and pull a plug wire and put a spare plug on the wire and check for spark. gotta know if its fuel or ignition related.

if its ignition i would swap out the distributor to a points unit and test for spark again.

could be coil related dropping out when hot.

could use a shot of engine starting fluid and see if the engine will try to start on that. if it does then fix the problem. Starting fluid is dangerous and really bad for the engine don't use it except to test engine fire not to start the engine.

once you know the issue then you can fix it. don't just start throwing parts at it until you know the problem.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

Max Welton wrote:
Maybe it's the condenser. If you just let it idle for the 2+ minutes, does it still die?

Hi Max, you probably missed it... he is running a Pertronix Ignitor II electronic points module. So, no condenser. But I agree if he had a condenser it would be a possible culprit.


Agree with above suggestions it is a fuel deliver problem. The problem described sounds similar to running a dirty/clogged fuel filter. At low rpms when the volume of fuel is low, the fuel pump is able to keep up with fuel demand and keep the fuel bowl full. As the speed/rpms increase the fuel demand increases and the fuel pump/lines cannot keep up with the demand. The fuel in the fuel bowl eventually runs dry and the engine sputters and power is lost. As the rpms drop the fuel delivery can provide fuel to the bowl. If you drop to idle the bowl will quickly fill and you can start all over. Clogged fuel tank outlet or kinked fuel hose works the same way as a dirty/clogged inline fuel filter. You mentioned refurbishing the fuel tank. Did you just clean it out or did you treat it by coating the inside with a sealer. Could you have restricted the tank outlet reducing the max flow?
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Max Welton
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

ashman40 wrote:
Max Welton wrote:
Maybe it's the condenser. If you just let it idle for the 2+ minutes, does it still die?

Hi Max, you probably missed it... he is running a Pertronix Ignitor II electronic points module. So, no condenser. But I agree if he had a condenser it would be a possible culprit.

Yup, I missed that.

Max
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

You said you refurbished the tank, did you coat it?, if so your vent holes might be clogged or almost clogged.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:03 am    Post subject: Re: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

If there is a vacuum being created in the tank, simply opening the gas cap should fix the problem. Easy check.
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lboos
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

What ashman40 said.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine idles fine but shuts down 2 minutes after driving the car Reply with quote

Any updates on this problem??
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