Firewall installation question

novablue69 · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:14 pm Post subject: Firewall installation question

OK, I need to install a new tarboard firewall in my stock 65 bug. Can this be done without dropping the engine? I am sure the old wall will come out with little trouble, it is so old, but can I put a new one in the same way?
Your advice is appreciated.
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Glenn · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:17 pm Post subject:

It's a lot easier to do it with the engine out. And make sure it's securely fastened to the firewall. It not it can fall against the fan shroud and block the fan intake.
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bamabug67s · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:21 pm Post subject:

You dont have to drop the motor, but taking out fan shroud,alt/gen,rear decklid & hinges would make it an easy thing to do.Also there may be a few wires behind the old tar board so be aware of that when installing the new tar board if your using screws.

66 12volt · Samba Member Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 195

It will be a lot easier to pull the motor. Once out you can check your mainshaft seal for leaks. clutch for wear, main seal, starter bushing. Great time to adust the valves while its out. With everything out of the way you can clean the compartment and do a very clean installation.

novablue69 · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the input guys! Not exactly what I wanted to hear, but certainly what I expected. This will have to wait then until next summer when I have the time and more money. I have never pulled the engine before and as suggested, might as well do the clutch while I have it apart. I think all of your suggestions are great as they make perfect sense.
Thanks again.
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drscope · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject:

novablue69, No reason to wait. They used to have an engine swap contest at the BUG In in California.

The cars were lined up with the rear up on jack stands and the hoods open. two guys for each car were standing 25 feet away at a table.

It was sort of a Lemans start, at the right time, the the contestants ran to their cars, removed the engine, carried it to the table, switched side, carried the engine back to the car, put it in and hooked up everything to factory specs.

The team to do this in the fastest time won. They got this done in under 4 minutes! If 2 guys that practiced could do it in 4 minutes, you can certainly do it in 30.

You should be able to take the motor out, remove your old tar board, install the new one, adjust your valves, look at the tranny seal and clutch and reinstall in one afternoon. Even after washing your hand 500 times to keep your manual clean.

I wouldn't get too carried away with checking the clutch and other things in the bell housing only because it's so simple to pull the motor out and reinstall it. On a lot of other cars it is a big pain, so anytime you have it apart, you install a new clutch and throw out bearing and seals because its so much labor to pull it apart again. But on a 65 VW, its so easy, there is no need to spend the money on the parts until you need them

4 nuts with 2 bolts hold the motor in. 2 heater cables, a throttle cable, a fuel line and a few electrical wires and she's out.
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KantDriveFast · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:44 pm Post subject:

novablue69 · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:56 am Post subject:

You guys make it sound soooo simple, I am almost tempted. Shocked

So if you are just one guy how do you lower the engine without some kind of engine or transmision jack?

And you know the rule when I work on cars, if it can be broken, I can break it!. To my knowledge this motor has not been out of the car since my dad bought it in 65. Something has got to be stuck or frozen or something. Rolling Eyes

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KantDriveFast · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:29 am Post subject:

Don't even start without a floor jack. I hear those ATV jacks are pretty useful too. If you are that worried about it, find a local Sambanista to come by and walk you through it... Cool

chipmcluk · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:59 am Post subject:

All you'll need is a floor jack. The engine doesn't weigh anything, easy enough to pull it yourself and keep it balanced at the same time.

novablue69 · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:52 pm Post subject:

Well...I have a fine heavy duty floor jack. You almost have me convinced. I better do a little more reading and thinkin'. I'm not that young anymore that I could lift an engine like I could when I was in my 50s. I'd get it out and it just might have to sit there for a while. Laughing

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bill may · Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:18 am Post subject:

i understand what you are saying. i pull a beetle engine in 20 minutes by myself. and then i take a nap. i am 64 Very Happy

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drscope · Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:42 am Post subject:

I forgot, you need to take the tin piece out that is at the rear of the engine, so the engine can come back a few inches. That could be anywhere from 4 to 6 really easy screws.

A floor jack is all thats needed and it doesn't have to be a heavy duty jack. If it can pick up one corner of the car, it can certainly handle the engine.

You may want to lay a piece of 2 x 6 about 18" long on the jack just to keep your jack saddle from marring up the bottom of the engine.

If you have your jack under the oil drain plate, the engine is easy to balance on the jack.

Take your time, don't rush and it will be out before you know it.

And also as stated, if you still arn't sure, there is probably someone on here that is close enough they would come give you a hand.
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coW · Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:49 am Post subject:

Rome · Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:05 am Post subject:

I certainly agree that this job is much less intimidating if you have a friend helping you who has pulled engines a few times. Also need 2 jackstands, some method to plug your fuel line (pencil?) in the left rear wheelwell, some 17mm wrenches/sockets for the engine bolts, an 8mm wrench/socket for the heater box wires, throttle cable and generator connections, and tape+marker for your handful of wires on the engine. Safety goggles and good work light.

novablue69 · Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:39 pm Post subject:

And all I want to do is install a piece of cardboard! Laughing

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chipmcluk · Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject:

Jody '71 · Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:04 am Post subject:

Furthermore, once you have your engine out do indeed inspect you fan and take off your cylinder covers and look for crap that your fan may have sucked up and blown all over your cylinder fins and and head fins. And check the oil cooler too. Be very careful when you bend the little sharp triangular mounting tabs out straight, you dont want to break them off. You don't want to break them off once you bend them over again through the tarboard. Also the flat mounting hold down tabs on the left and right side of the engine compartment can break too if your not careful when prying them. The more you bend everything the weaker the tabs get. Depending on your supplier for the tarboard kit, you may have to do some trimming. Happy tarboarding.
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dotmob · Samba Member Joined: August 04, 2017 Posts: 1 Location: GA

What if your main wiring wiring loom is really screwed up like mine and there's hardly any cord to hook it back to LOL. I don't think I'll be pulling my engine anytime soon until I feel that I can replace the main wiring loom

cyclehobby

I think if your car is running fine and there's nothing else prompting you to remove the engine, wait until you have a few things to address before you remove it just to replace the tar boards.

Like everyone says, removing the engine is not really hard to do or very time consuming. But, you do have to:

Disconnect the gas line and plug/clamp it
Disconnect the throttle cable
Disconnect the 2 heater cables (if you have heat)
Remove the 2 heater tubes
Remove the breast plate tin at the rear of the car
Remove your air filter
Disconnect wiring to the generator/alternator, coil

Then remove the 2 nuts and 2 bolts that hold the engine to the transaxle.

Additionally, while pulling the engine off of the trans shaft, you have to move it rearward a bit. I found when doing this alone, I would remove the fan belt and (sometimes) the distributor (or just the cap) to give me some extra wiggle room. Again, none of this is difficult or very time consuming, but you have to pay attention and work carefully even with help.

So, this is why I think you should do all this - and the tar boards - when you have other reasons to pull the engine. Like clutch/pressure plate/TO bearing replacement, main seal replacement, etc.

Keep in mind the tar boards are likely still held on with welded on sheet metal tabs/spikes that you poke through the new tar board, then bend back over. It's much easier to be careful "unbending" these tabs and not breaking them off if the engine is out of the way and you have room to work.

Oh, and use the time with the engine out to replace your engine compartment seals, too.

This may sound like a lot of work and to some it is. But, it's also part of what these old air cooled VWs are all about and it can be a lot of fun to do and something to be proud of when you're done.
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