Spray bars in the heads?

[earthquake]

I was thinking about making some oil spray bars to mount in the heads to help keep the valve train cool and help cool the heads some what, I plan to put a drain from the bottom of each head back to the crank case. I am going to use a small deep sump and run the oil level about 3/4" low on the dip stick.
Would this be a good use for a 30mm pump? I have a brand new Schadek 30mm pump sitting on the shelf.

eQ
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74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison]

[oprn]

I just put my 30mm pump in the lathe and cut it down to 26mm. Much quicker and easier. I personally cannot see how 2 fittings and hose could flow enough oil to make any real difference. You already have 8 big pushrod tubes doing that job far better.
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[Wreck]

A couple of ways to skin a cat , The Late Ray Vallero used a simple spray system by drilling a small hole in the pushrods , so they rotate and spray the overhead gear and more oil on the heads . Very simple and no external lines etc .

I’ve used an Autocraft style , a spray bar with small holes to spray onto the springs ,head etc , fed from a swageloc valve adjusted with a crack pressure of 30psi . So idle oil pressure is not affected . I also had 1.5mm restrictors in the bars ,too much oil and it can’t get back to the sump quick enough .
They do work but there can be a down side , I was getting excessive oil through the intake valve guides .so capped them for now . I’ll fit valve guide seals next time the heads are apart .
I’ve them also on a low performance 2.3 lt type 4 in a heavy camper , it doesn’t have the same issue with oiling up the combustion chamber . I found It reduces CHT s by about 15c and puts that temp into the oil .

[BFB]

i dont really see the point of spray bars with as much as the valve covers will fill. even if they were just 1/4 full there'd have to be so much oil slinging and splashing around it'd make spraying pointless?
i did a bunch of hoover mods to a 2021 i built and the valve covers filled up so much it got oil past the intake valves and into the ports. i drilled and tapped the rear sides of the heads for 5/8 drain lines just below the valve stem level and it was enough to fix the issue. youd think four pushrod tubes would be enough but apparently not
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[UK Luke 72]

iVikings has spray bars in his heads. Check out his thread for details
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[King_vw61]

I think they work great, 5200 miles on a set of 910 Autocraft heads. I evac the oil from the heads with the 1/2 of my pump and a 1/2.

4 holes one at each spring. small, not sure what it was but there was a # we were shooting for.
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[Emeraldlion]

There is also the trick of crossdrilling the pushrod ends so they become "rainbird sprinklers" if you will. There is a thread of an engine build from the late great Ray Valero where it photo documents him doing this.
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1967 Sunroof Beetle: tourist pass car
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[FreeBug]

[earthquake]

I have a oil pump from a Auto Stick car, I could use that to evac the heads and pump it back to the sump.

eQ
_________________
74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison]

[slalombuggy]

Spray bars work and greatly reduce valve spring temps as well as head temps. 4 little hole can accomplish a lot, ask the turbo guys who have installed piston squirters how much it has reduced their piston failures.

There is not as much oil in the 1/2 side head as you think. In fact it's kinda scary how little there is. I did the Hoover mod and dramatically increased the amount of oil, but I'm still contemplating spray bars in the heads to cool the valve springs.

[halbug]

I had been planning on using spay bars with cooled oil to extra lube my Berg rockers and cool the valve train:

However I will be running Pauter rockers now and they come with completly gun drilled holes in the the adjuster screws, spraying plenty of oil into the covers. So I have been told...

Either way I will be evacuating the oil with a dry sump pump anyhow.

I like the idea of having a valve cover with see through to determine the real amount of oil in the heads. There is so much controversy information around about how much (and if too much) oil is in the head.
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[mark tucker]

I dont see holy pushrods doing a lot as theya re not aiming at the springs as they spin while running, you it should get up there....but...I would rather have spray bars.( witch some of my heads are set up for.)

[Emeraldlion]

Mark, I have not run this myself but in rays thread the claim was that the pushrods actually spin and and spritz the adjacent springs. I assume that similar to an aerator they lubricate the springs and aerate the oil slightly? I can see where the previous posted spray bar picture would definitely provide a greater desired effect.
_________________
1967 Sunroof Beetle: tourist pass car
1961 SWR Kombi

[mark tucker]

where are the pushrods?? where are the rockers&shaft? and where is the springs?? yes it probably will get some on the springs...and...reduce whats going to the rockers..making them run hotter...and wear more... and...so on and so fourth. it will probably also cool the head some. 180 degres just going were it's not needed 180 degrees of spray going....to spray the rocker shafts..& in the tubes...& little else....so when does it spray on the springs?? just a few degrees of rotation, but they will see some drips or splash..hopefuly. I dont see a up side to it unless your just trying to lighten the pushrods..and reduce the oil to the rockers.and have 8 internal oil leeks that do little. but atleast they do little!!!

[Alstrup]

I´m not totally sold on the PR mod either. IF that should work even decent it will require groving the lifter bores and Hoover mods to make sure the lifters push enough oil up there. Then it could do a difference. But as Mark points out, the spray hole will be pointing away from the beneficial areas half of the time.
On the other hand, a "50% improvement" is significant.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993

[halbug]

I agree, the lifter bore or follower should be modified to always supply oil to the pushrod with the Pauters. Then I think oil os gonna go everywhere from the rocker end movement I think.

Can you guys post pictures of how you actually placed your squirters in the head?

Cheers Lars
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Stealth Ghia Transformation: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7226044&highlight=#7226044
My Berg5: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=730276&start=0

[Wreck]

An issue with brake tube welded /brazed to the rocker cover is the tube can crack over time because of expansion rate differences , I’ve one end fitted solid , silver soldered into the fitting , the other end in a little bracket that allows a bit of slip .
I would also look at fitting valve stem seals ,something will fit .

[halbug]

Interesting approach. I like that idea of yours.

I was most concerned about getting oil to the contact between valve stem and rocker.
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Stealth Ghia Transformation: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7226044&highlight=#7226044
My Berg5: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=730276&start=0

[Quokka42]

Spray bars have been used a long time by racers, but make sure you have enough oil flow and pressure.
You want to run a little more oil than stock - a deep sump with drains to it as a minimum, dry sump is the ultimate but you wat the vacuum running to the bottom of the rocker covers.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[Ohio Tom]

Pauter roller rockers have a notch in them to direct oil at the springs.
They work really well.

Probably the most intelligently designed rockers you can buy.

Setting up geometry with them is easy too. They don't care too much about being perfect. The roller takes the side load out of the picture.