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Cap City Custom Syncro Tin Top TDI build - am I crazy?
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Cap City Custom Syncro Tin Top TDI build - am I crazy? Reply with quote

16CVs wrote:
TDi = trans killer!


I think that's a significant oversimplification. However, at this point I do think it is a mistake to use one of the more powerful TDI engines with a manual Vanagon trans and a single mass flywheel. With the DMF and respectful driving, I think that the trans could last well coupled to the PD. As I mentioned before, I also think that the rest of the FAS kit could be used with the diesel vanagon bell housing, diesel vanagon syncro fuel tank, and DMF, but I have not personally used that combo to confirm.
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16CVs Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Cap City Custom Syncro Tin Top TDI build - am I crazy? Reply with quote

Go wisely
Grasshopper[/quote]
Yes but would you sell it to me for the price I have negotiated :)

So what is the negotiated price, it is always nice to know real world VS Pie in the sky.

I think you should buy it ! There's lots of opinions around here and they're all free.

Stacy
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ttigg
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Cap City Custom Syncro Tin Top TDI build - am I crazy? Reply with quote

16CVs wrote:
Go wisely
Grasshopper

Yes but would you sell it to me for the price I have negotiated Smile

16CVs wrote:

So what is the negotiated price, it is always nice to know real world VS Pie in the sky.

I think you should buy it ! There's lots of opinions around here and they're all free.

Stacy


I think until the van is sold that should be kept offline. My biggest concern outside of all of this valuable input is when I began "syncro lust" again I hadn't taken into consideration location. Sure I know a lot of good shops would not be around me as they are mostly out west but I've since come to learn that there really are not ANY good shops within a 1000 miles and or hours or drive/trailer time.
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Cap City Custom Syncro Tin Top TDI build - am I crazy? Reply with quote

do note OP that you are getting replies and advise from the most highly regarded syncro transaxle and vanagon diesel posters we have here.
if you chose to not head their advise.. that is ENTIRELY upon you. they have years and multiple vanagons of experience in this arena.
and they are not the ones trying to sell YOU on a particular vanagon..
do not dismiss their advise lightly.

the ROI on diesel is the long game. so long that it's nearly never and only a scant few (posters inhere) have or will ever achieve the break even point of miles per dollars.. and that's only because they DIY the parts/install and don't have the installation $premium$ to overcome.
because a gallon of diesel is 0.$$ more than a gallon of gas.

lastly while an SVX has more power and can certainly kill a transaxle. it's not the same at all as a diesel.. you must learn the differences to compare the differences.. a proper SVX driver will get many more miles out of a trans than even a proper TDI driver.. as the power is more linear and not in impacting pulses.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Cap City Custom Syncro Tin Top TDI build - am I crazy? Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
because a gallon of diesel is 0.$$ more than a gallon of gas.


This is what I have been seeing locally for the last ~6 months:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Cap City Custom Syncro Tin Top TDI build - am I crazy? Reply with quote

The trans was recently rebuilt, for what it's worth...

I'd highly suggest going out there and test driving the heck out of it. I have a feeling you won't be impressed...
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Cap City Custom Syncro Tin Top TDI build - am I crazy? Reply with quote

and you know that's an anomaly over the last 10years.
here it's essentially the same regular gas and diesel.
But, it's not going to stay equal long.. just enjoy it while you can.

?Waldo? wrote:
danfromsyr wrote:
because a gallon of diesel is 0.$$ more than a gallon of gas.


This is what I have been seeing locally for the last ~6 months:

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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Cap City Custom Syncro Tin Top TDI build - am I crazy? Reply with quote

I would not call the lower price for diesel in the summer months an anomaly. That's actually typical for here. Typically in the cold months diesel is more due to the higher demand for home heating oil and in the summer diesel is typically similar or less than regular.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:12 am    Post subject: Re: Cap City Custom Syncro Tin Top TDI build - am I crazy? Reply with quote

I'm always baffled as to why the discussion of whether to choose a diesel swap makes sense boils down to fuel mileage. I like the 30% better fuel mileage just fine, but the torque is the thing that always gets my approval. There's a reason why VW went with so many diesel models from the T3 on to the current T6. The torque characteristics of the diesels just make sense for a big heavy loaf.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: Cap City Custom Syncro Tin Top TDI build - am I crazy? Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
do note OP that you are getting replies and advise from the most highly regarded syncro transaxle and vanagon diesel posters we have here.
if you chose to not head their advise.. that is ENTIRELY upon you. they have years and multiple vanagons of experience in this arena.
and they are not the ones trying to sell YOU on a particular vanagon..
do not dismiss their advise lightly.

and for that I am very grateful and none of it has been dismissed. I have combed over details/research, reached out to others, had long conversations about the pros/cons and possible issues etc.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:46 am    Post subject: Re: Cap City Custom Syncro Tin Top TDI build - am I crazy? Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
I'm always baffled as to why the discussion of whether to choose a diesel swap makes sense boils down to fuel mileage. I like the 30% better fuel mileage just fine, but the torque is the thing that always gets my approval. There's a reason why VW went with so many diesel models from the T3 on to the current T6. The torque characteristics of the diesels just make sense for a big heavy loaf.


I am so far from an expert or having first hand knowledge,
But......

I glean that the very increase in torque you speak so highly of is the killer of these transaxles which were not designed to withstand it.

Dave
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: Cap City Custom Syncro Tin Top TDI build - am I crazy? Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:

I glean that the very increase in torque you speak so highly of is the killer of these transaxles which were not designed to withstand it.

Dave


I suspect it's not just the torque but rather the pulsing power of the TDIs that hurt the transmission. This is why the DMF was used VW and why it is recommended. I run a DMF. The other mod I have now is the straight cut 4th gear. I'd be curious if this freshly rebuilt transmission has a straight cut 4th.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: Cap City Custom Syncro Tin Top TDI build - am I crazy? Reply with quote

a Diesel pulling when loaded sounds to me like a train/heavy boat.. with a recurring resonance. that's the 'audible' portion we can hear but the mechanical and physics side is rough on the transaxle bearings and housing.

when all that TDI torque is available but the 4th gear and bearing scream from the load. generating excess heat that REQUIRES a gear oil cooling system and substantially shortened gear oil changes to get any longitivity

it's also a denial to put it into 3rd on big hills/pulls. add in that the TDI doesn't like higher RPMS. so large tires and R&P along with 4thgear upgrades... grenades the trans..


there is no denying a Diesel excels at off road grunt.. another thing that's needed when one puts BIG tires on a syncro w/o updating both R&Ps.

everybody loves big gnarly tires.. but they come with a HUGE price tag and potential penalty list.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: Cap City Custom Syncro Tin Top TDI build - am I crazy? Reply with quote

Dan, what you are saying is a lot of half-truths and over-simplifications that are all heavily biased in one direction.

The TDI engines will do fine with revs to 5,000 or so. The max torque starts dropping off fairly quickly above 4,000 though so revving above that is less and less productive. Max power on the stock AHU is @ 4,000 rpms so downshifting and taking hills in 3rd (or 4th if you have a 5-speed) makes sense. I've never felt the need to do differently with the air-cooled, WBX or inline-4 gasser engines I have run in Vanagons.

For some real world numbers lets go with the gearing of the last manual trans TDI install I did. It was a stock DX 5-speed gears with a R+P swap to the 4.14. 3rd is 1.02 and 4th is 0.77.

With stock size tires that gives a cruising rpm of 70@3,000 to 75@3,250. A downshift to 4th at 70 MPH will bring the rpms from 3,000 to 4,000 (peak hp). Engine is happy and trans is happy and there is plenty of power to climb steep highway grades at that speed/rpm.
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SoloTheSyncro
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Cap City Custom Syncro Tin Top TDI build - am I crazy? Reply with quote

ttigg wrote:
valvecovergasket wrote:
i dont really have any comments other than - holy shit that price Shocked

and thinking of the other things you could buy to camp in for ~70k that arent quirky antiques. Laughing


Indeed. I toyed with the idea of a Transit/Sprinter but they also have "their issues" and for me, the biggest of those is the 12-13mpg. With the TDI in this, and also being a tin-top, mpg should be very high 20s or even mid 30s Laughing


I'm with you! Currently working with a guy that is restoring an '86 Westy Weekender Wolfsburg Syncro for us back to more or less the original with upgraded WBX. Syncros have a lot going on underneath and when done well, easy to invest $50K into parts/labor. It's in paint now and once finished we will invest another $20K building it out as our Overland vehicle. Been building jeeps and 4runners and have to say, I've ditched them all to roll in a Vanagon again. Sprinters/transits/Promasters will cost you 2x and you will end up selling it in 2 years like everyone else. Bottom line, $70K is not asking too much for this build and I would have purchased it if it was a Westy.

Good luck! Hope to see you in it on the trail someday!
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Cap City Custom Syncro Tin Top TDI build - am I crazy? Reply with quote

jmjardine wrote:

Good luck! Hope to see you in it on the trail someday!

Thank you jmjardine and all. I decided to pass on the rig because although the trans was rebuilt (almost 5k miles ago now) I still have reservations about the longevity and considering my location (middle of nowhere VW) that ultimately led to me passing.

I guess I'll crawl back into my hole and continue to troll around trying to find someone mad enough to sell me a 1.8t Westy Syncro at pre-pandemic prices Laughing (hey they do exist sometimes)
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Cap City Custom Syncro Tin Top TDI build - am I crazy? Reply with quote

ttigg wrote:
jmjardine wrote:

Good luck! Hope to see you in it on the trail someday!

Thank you jmjardine and all. I decided to pass on the rig because although the trans was rebuilt (almost 5k miles ago now) I still have reservations about the longevity and considering my location (middle of nowhere VW) that ultimately led to me passing.

I guess I'll crawl back into my hole and continue to troll around trying to find someone mad enough to sell me a 1.8t Westy Syncro at pre-pandemic prices Laughing (hey they do exist sometimes)


You will find one! I personally did not want to go diesel (South America is off the table) and for many of the same reasons more knowledgeable folks than me mentioned above. With that said, I don't think prices will fall back on Syncros much and if all the other mods are to your liking and what you would plan to build out on a less complete rig, engine swap is one of the easier things to do and when done yourself, provides a ton of value and savings down the road...
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