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SixVolt
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2004
Posts: 1136
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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 Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:04 pm Post subject: 40HP into an Oval |
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| '57 Oval with a stock 6V 36HP will be in need of a rebuild. I have a stock 6V fresh air 40HP engine fully dressed out of a '59 split bus that I'd like to run in the oval until I get the 36HP rebuilt. I have a fresh air 40HP beetle muffler to swap. I know the tin is going to be an issue, but how much of an issue? What are the fit issues with a 6V 40hp fresh air into an oval? Can't believe I couldn't find a thread on this in the oval forum. |
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60ragtop
Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006
Posts: 7800
Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: 40HP into an Oval |
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fresh air heater boxes might be a problem, they are with a 1600 swap
_________________
Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
| tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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| sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked  |
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Iowa Mark
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2004
Posts: 1071
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: 40HP into an Oval |
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| I have a stale air 40 horse fan shroud if you want to get creative? |
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SixVolt
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2004
Posts: 1136
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: 40HP into an Oval |
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| Iowa Mark wrote: |
| I have a stale air 40 horse fan shroud if you want to get creative? |
Thanks, but I'm already swimming in early stuff that no one seems to want anymore. I've got all the fan shouds, tin and heater boses I'll ever need for 36 and early 40HP stuff.
I'm just trying to figure out what issues I'll have with tin and fresh air heater boxes getting a 40HP into an oval. I thought that a 40HP would give me a little more room than a 1600, but maybe not. The 40HP I'm putting in is 6V with the 180mm flywheel, so no issues there. I usually have to take the muffler off anyway to get my 36HP into my oval, so I won't plan on putting the 40hp beetle muffler on (swapping off the bus muffler set up) until the engine is in. I usually take the outer generator pulley off too.
I'm just wondering if there are any tricks to get it in. Also, if I should do something with the front (front is front) tin to be sure the accelerator cable and choke cable can be hookd up freely. (Assuming I can't use the eexisting 40HP tin.
Also I don't know if rear tin, like the breastplate, will fit? I usually leave that off on install anyway, but I'm wondering.
If its too much of a hassle, I'll just wait and put in the 36 when its rebuilt. I'd just like to use the 40HP now so I can keep driving it while the weather is nice in Cleveland. |
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oldslow
Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2019
Posts: 104
Location: Cape Cod
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: 40HP into an Oval |
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My experience with putting a fresh air 40 into a 59 Ghia was that width was no problem
I dealt with rear apron tin by taking an old 40hp apron and bending the rear lip tighter, along with some pounding on it with a hammer. I suppose you could just cut on it (if you use the early style rubber seal, the 2 flap type)
The passenger side heater box rubbed the body at the front edge, made install a pain. If I had it to do over I would put a J tube on passenger side and have half a heater.
I had no trouble with the front tin and accelerator cable. Even though the tin and the opening are not exact the same shape.
And if you are using the 28pict you won’t need the choke.
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- better to drive a slow car fast than fast car slow -
Last edited by oldslow on Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Teeroy 
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2003
Posts: 3685
Location: Eastern WA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: 40HP into an Oval |
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Just install heater boxes and muffler after engine is installed. You might need to trim the pulley tin around the middle
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Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org |
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SixVolt
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2004
Posts: 1136
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:33 am Post subject: Re: 40HP into an Oval |
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Appreciate the responses. I like the idea of installing the HE's and muffler after engine install.
I have some crappy aftermarket tin that I can cut if I have to cut anything. I'm not a fan of wasting OE stuff, even if I have a lot of it. Again, appreciate it. |
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Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9637
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: 40HP into an Oval |
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| I like the idea of installing the HE's and muffler after engine install. |
In late '80's I installed a 1600 single-port into a '56 Beetle that came with a 1300. When attempting to install the 1600 with the 1600 stock fresh-air HB's I encountered the problem mentioned above, whereby the top of the HB would hit the bottom of the firewall. I also removed the HB, installed J-tubes to better balance the engine on a wide board on the jack (rear ends of J-tubes pushed into the muffler), then replaced the J-tubes with the fresh air HB once the engine was installed. Since 40 hp fresh air HB are about the same height as the 1600's, I'm sure you'll have the same problem.
The hardest nut to fasten when installing the HB after the engine is in, is the passenger side upper one. There was no room to swing the short wrench in an arc due to the closeness of the starter housing and the firewall. So before you install the 40 hp, make sure you run an M8 x 1.25 die on each of the heads' exhaust studs so that you can start the nut (lock washer first) by hand and wiggle the HB with your other hand until the nut is hand-snug. I used the sideways-curved 13 mm box-end wrench such as for getting to the front mounting nut on the carburetor to tighten the nut about 1/8 turn at a time. Tedious. Also put anti-seize onto those exhaust studs. |
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60ragtop
Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006
Posts: 7800
Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: 40HP into an Oval |
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a wrench like these for the heater boxes
but you don't need to mess around with putting j pipes on it just to take them off again. With both HB's removed the engine balances fine on a jack.
Accelerator cable fits in the proper location. IIRC you only need to trim the rear tin, the rest fits - as long as it hasn't been tagged in the rear
_________________
Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
| tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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| sb001 wrote: |
| maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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Robert Chambers
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2005
Posts: 216
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:48 am Post subject: Re: 40HP into an Oval |
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I installed my 1835 in my '56 Oval with the heater boxes and muffler installed. I carefully removed the two large rear bolts holding the trans while holding up the trans with the floor jack. I carefully lowered the trans to rest on the axle boots. I protected the axle boots with thick rags. After the engine was bolted with a couple bolts, I raised the trans enough to replace the large bolts. This was done using a two post lift to hold the car. I had more trouble trimming the back tin to seal the heat from the muffler. I guess I was afraid to remove too much tin at a time. After several times trimming it fit great! Good luck with your Oval!
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'63 OG 117 Herbie Replica
'56 Euro Oval Deluxe
'52 Standard Zwitter
'63 OG 117 |
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