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HotStreetVw
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Joined: October 03, 2004
Posts: 871
Location: Wild West
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 Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Mofoco Head Problems, Fixes, and Perfomance- Post it all here |
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Man what a hassle. I always buy CB and bolt them on.
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4inBhore
50 Split - 2724cc NA. Haltech injected
62 Notchback - 2542cc Turbo WIP |
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RWK
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Joined: June 24, 2009
Posts: 1347
Location: S.W. MI
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Mofoco Head Problems, Fixes, and Perfomance- Post it all here |
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X2, Alstrup wrote,
"know enough about CNC to get myself in trouble. At least 75% of the inaccuracies with guides not being in the correct position and angle, - varying 3-3,5 degrees in the same head is almost certainly due to slack/wear in the tool holder hence my comment earlier."
My 2 cents;
Usually (almost always) holes that are off in angularity are due to DULL tools/improper start location (no start hole/center drill or not a flat starting surface),causes a drill to wander, assuming speeds and feeds are correct.
In production VW most likely drilled those holes from a multi spindle drill (all at the same time) with a fixture with (drill bushings to guide and locate) within a few mm or so above the start location, in a fourth of the time of a CNC.
I would not assume MFC has that, and CNC is not always the "go to/ means accurate" In this application its just a spindle turning the drill/reamer, however speeds and feeds are very important, but those issues were figured out long before CNC.
Also, casting present another problem, material can very in density throughout the casting, causing drilling issues, sooo many variables MFC has to deal with, maybe these issues have been addressed by MFC, or possibly these comments will help improve.
My comments are based on experience I have in industrial tooling for over 40 years.
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RWK
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Joined: June 24, 2009
Posts: 1347
Location: S.W. MI
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:37 am Post subject: Re: Mofoco Head Problems, Fixes, and Perfomance- Post it all here |
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| HotStreetVw wrote: |
| Man what a hassle. I always buy CB and bolt them on. |
They have issues also, I got whacked on this tread bringing them up, (044s) which was my bad 
You must check everything these days!
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HotStreetVw
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Joined: October 03, 2004
Posts: 871
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:25 am Post subject: Re: Mofoco Head Problems, Fixes, and Perfomance- Post it all here |
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You check everything because your a toolmaker. You don't have to, I've been plenty fast and reliable with just bolting them on. Cut them deep and send it
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4inBhore
50 Split - 2724cc NA. Haltech injected
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jpaull
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Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3461
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Mofoco Head Problems, Fixes, and Perfomance- Post it all here |
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Roy, thanks for the long post and explanation earlier. This thread is really for those that want to fix the heads with your help or not. If you want to take notes and make improvments, thats awesome. You mentioned upgrades in 2018, but most the issues are after that time. If everything is truly fixed and all the heads coming out to customers now are acceptable and usable, thats the BEST news I have ever heard, I love it! Then this thread shall collect dust and fall off the map regarding issues, and we can just focus on Performance stuff rather then the fixes that people are trying to overcome.
For anyone requesting Roy/Mofoco to respond or get help, please use his dedicated feedback thread:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=224339&highlight=mofoco |
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[email protected]
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Joined: August 15, 2002
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Location: Brew City
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Mofoco Head Problems, Fixes, and Perfomance- Post it all here |
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| jpaull wrote: |
| Alstrup wrote: |
My 2 set puchased early 2020 I´m sure you´ll be able to find my invoice. The non TS ones were the worst.
Lee´s were early 2019.
On a positive note, I really hope it is improving. On a personal level I think I have come to the conclusion that seeing is believing.
I know enough about CNC to get myself in trouble. At least 75% of the inaccuracies with guides not being in the correct position and angle, - varying 3-3,5 degrees in the same head is almost certainly due to slack/wear in the tool holder hence my comment earlier. The last 10% can be a lot other factors. But hey, if they can do it correct in China or Brazil I´m sure its posible to do it right in the US too.
Carry on. |
So the issues with Yours, Nightshifts, and Jimmy Hoffas were all sent out AFTER Mofocos big 2018 upgrade? |
I've been waiting to reply to see if anyone would post new information that hasn't either been fixed in the great cylinder head update of 2018 or been addressed by me in the past.
I have repeatedly stated that the core shift seat overhang "issue" and spring seat "issue" were not fixed in that upgrade.
SixVolt-----That spring seat should have been remachined before we finished the heads, we missed that and is 100% unacceptable and our fault. While I am 99% sure it would not have caused any type of failure, I appreciate your feedback. I would like to offer you a $250 parts credit for taking pictures, posting the issue and addressing it to me in a professional way. Thank you. Please email me with what I can help you with.
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Please "LIKE" us on facebook to see what we are working on.
https://www.facebook.com/mofoco?ref=ts&fref=ts
www.mofoco.com
Cylinder Head Reference Sheet
Last edited by [email protected] on Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jpaull
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Mofoco Head Problems, Fixes, and Perfomance- Post it all here |
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| SixVolt wrote: |
I purchased a set of 040-DP (85.5/87) MOFOCO heads on May 28, 2020, Order #33652. Because I'm busy and mechanically incompetent, I didn't have a chance to install and run them before seeing this thread.
I am friends with a very competent VW tech who posts on this site regularly and I decided to run the heads over to his shop and have him give them a closer look before he reinstalls them and runs them for me.
The short answer is he saw nothing out of the ordinary in his inspection. At least nothing that would cause him to say there are obvious problems.
He disassembled the heads and checked the valves, stems, seats, guides springs retainers and clips and found nothing out of whack.
Now the proof won't come till the engine is run, but nothing visual looked out of place. He may or may not want to offer his assessment, but I'll at least show the images of him going through them. He previously air tested them and also tested the valves seating with a blueish dye today.
One last point, In the images you can see some casting numbers and there's a "1" stamped on the side of both heads. Could that be the tech who did the work?
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This is EXACTLY one of the reasons why I posted this thread. Here is someone who just about to run the heads, (you can even see the fresh sealer on the stud washer seating area, i love it!) clearly pulled them back off after seeing this thread and took them to a cylinder head guy to give them a second look. Damn! thats awesome!
One question, like others mentioned regarding the spring seat. When your Head guy gave them a clean bill of health, did he mention anything about only having 50% of the spring seat to sit on? It looks like the spring will teeter/totter on that seat even with shims. What say other cylinder head guys, what would you do to fix this?
Im spitballing here, but if someone ground the seat till the spring makes 100% contact it might punch through to the other side.
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HotStreetVw
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Joined: October 03, 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:09 am Post subject: Re: Mofoco Head Problems, Fixes, and Perfomance- Post it all here |
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Jeff, I think you cut it until you get contact all the way around. You might punch through, weld it and you might have a bump in the port. Hard to say not knowing what the cross section is there to the port.
The spring seat in my 910s went into the intake port, they were welded with just a bump and smoothed into the port. They run ok
In no way am i justifying a customer having to do this to brand new heads.
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4inBhore
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AlteWagen
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raygreenwood
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Mofoco Head Problems, Fixes, and Perfomance- Post it all here |
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I do not actually know what the factory used those blocks (type 4) or knoibs (type 1) for ....but at least I know on the type 4 heads they have at least enough machine work on them that when I put a straight edge across them....they are parallel to each other and the valve cover rail. What else they "actually" key to....I do not know.
Also....I have also seen milling machine jigs for type 4 heads that actually keyed off of these two blocks.
Note.....important note..... on that last sentence. Just because the two blocks I described in my posted photos.....are parallel to each other....does NOT mean that....for example....they are parallel to ANYTHING on the heads.....like say.....the valve guide bosses/bores.
They may simply be the points that key the head casting.....to the JIG. The jig itself may be set up to be parallel to the centerlines of the valve guide bores etc.
The knobs and flats and even a couple of blind precision machined holes on my transmission cases are this way. These features do not relate to anything in the actual transmission case....they simply relate the case casting to the fixture in a uniform way. Am I making sense?
Ray
Last edited by raygreenwood on Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RWK
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Mofoco Head Problems, Fixes, and Perfomance- Post it all here |
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Sometimes those knobs are the spru's, where the casting is filled from, they get ground or sawed off after casting, possible they also serve as location points or clamping pads, as in the square T4 heads, the pads when used as clamping points usually have vise like markings on them.
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raygreenwood
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Mofoco Head Problems, Fixes, and Perfomance- Post it all here |
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| RWK wrote: |
| Sometimes those knobs are the spru's, where the casting is filled from, they get ground or sawed off after casting, possible they also serve as location points or clamping pads, as in the square T4 heads, the pads when used as clamping points usually have vise like markings on them. |
Yes....in the picture of the MOFOCO head...they simply look like feeder sprues.
On the type 4 heads...they may HAVE been feeder sprues....but they were definitely machined square to each other. Whether that was just part of one machining process or purposeful set up for another process...I do not know. But I have seen the blocks on type 4 heads used as a jig set up baseline. Ray |
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SixVolt
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Mofoco Head Problems, Fixes, and Perfomance- Post it all here |
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I am the person who posted the pictures earlier in the thread of the head with the spring seat issue.
First I want to thank Roy on responding right away to the issue identified and his offer to credit me $250.
Sure, like any consumer, I wish these problems didn't happen. I wish the product I received was pristine. It wasn't, but Roy stepped up and is standing behind his product, so let's keep everything in perspective.
My tech friend decided to bolt up the heads and check them out further. A Leakdown test was done an the valve seating was all acceptable. (Yes, spring seat issue aside) Just want people to know these are not bad heads for the value price of $200 a head. And yes, I know you want them perfect when you get them and I do too, but I'm old and I'm a realist. My solace comes from Roy pubiicly expressing his willingness to make things right.
Like anyone else, I want a quality product for my money, but I also realize these are value heads. Where is anyone going to get a set of usable new case heads for the price MOFOCO offering? Nowhere.
So despite this set back, I'm good with MOFOCO and with Roy as a business owner with the character to stand by his product publicly.
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jpaull
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Mofoco Head Problems, Fixes, and Perfomance- Post it all here |
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| texastomeh wrote: |
FWIW:
I received an Email this morning (7/23) from Paul @ MOFOCO that my new 042 heads have been shipped.
I should be receiving them early next week (7/26+).
Thanx to the guys on here that have taken a CONSTRUCTIVE approach to the issue at hand, I am more aware of POTENTIAL problem areas.
One question that needs to be asked relates to the vintage of the "problem" heads. By that I mean; WHEN WERE THE HEADS BUILT? In the case of MOFOCO the "Build Date" and the "Technician Code" are stamped right on the head. I have read several threads where MOFOCO acknowledged some QC issues "years ago" and have since corrected them.
It would also be important to note if the issues are pre or post MOFOCO upgrading/improving the heads as quoted below from a post by Roy:
| Quote: |
All of the MOFOCO upgrades on the castings, the guides, the seats, and everything else were done and completed in Winter 2017. Not that there were any "problems" with the earlier heads BUT the newer versions are just better.
A couple of the upgrades are; specific port work on the 042 and 050 intake and exhaust ports that we experimented with and then had the mold changed, more airflow through the casting to maximize cooling (not that there was any problem the way it was), new machining for no step on all the heads and a few more things.
We also now have custom made guides for better flow, chromoly retainers are standard on all the 042 and 050 heads and we also created some new valve size combo's with different castings that we didn't offer before. In the end, my goal was to have head combos that are all specifically designed for street performance at affordable prices.
The main thing I did was to update the port design on the 042 and 050's to eliminate the need for extra porting and polishing.
Here are the specs on the New 042 as cast. 62cc Intake Port Volume and 55cc NO STEP chamber. HD Springs, stainless steel valves, chromoly retainers. Added material so it won't break through when boring for 94's.
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As I said earlier, IF there is an issue, I will address it with Roy and let you know the outcome.
THANX and STAY WELL!! 
Tom |
Any news on these? Judging by your 7/26 eta you should have had them for awhile and able to look them over. How do they look? Love to see some pictures of seats/guides/spring seat area. |
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APPLEGREENVW
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texastomeh
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: Mofoco Head Problems, Fixes, and Perfomance- Post it all here |
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Guys,
FWIW: The MOFOCO build date (month/year) and the technician code number are stamped right on each head.
JPAULL wrote:
| Quote: |
| Any news on these? Judging by your 7/26 eta you should have had them for awhile and able to look them over. How do they look? Love to see some pictures of seats/guides/spring seat area. |
UPS delivered the heads on 7/29.
I will post some "AS RECEIVED" photos on 8/01.
STAY WELL!!
Tom
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wheel607
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:28 am Post subject: Re: Mofoco Head Problems, Fixes, and Perfomance- Post it all here |
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| Tom, please post your photos. Looking forward to these. |
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texastomeh
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:50 am Post subject: Re: Mofoco Head Problems, Fixes, and Perfomance- Post it all here |
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Guys,
PHOTOS coming soon!!
STAY WELL!! 
Tom
_________________
A new engine build won't solve ALL of life's problems - only those THAT REALLY MATTER!!!
GETTING old was GREAT - BEING old SUCKS!!
Too bad that the guys that know how to solve all of the WORLD's problems are too busy working on old Volkswagens!! |
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AlteWagen
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jpaull
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Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Mofoco Head Problems, Fixes, and Perfomance- Post it all here |
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| texastomeh wrote: |
Guys,
PHOTOS coming soon!!
STAY WELL!!
Tom |
Did you have to send the heads back? |
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