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What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers?
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kreemoweet
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? Reply with quote

BusBerd wrote:
Buslab says that these are for Vanagon's 80-85.


Which are identical to '73-'79 bus Girling calipers, except for the orientation of
the brake fluid port. Product application details given by vendors are frequently
inaccurate.
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BusBerd
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? Reply with quote

kreemoweet wrote:
BusBerd wrote:
Buslab says that these are for Vanagon's 80-85.


Which are identical to '73-'79 bus Girling calipers, except for the orientation of
the brake fluid port. Product application details given by vendors are frequently
inaccurate.


Got it. thanks!

I've read that there may be some clearance issues (not necessarily insurmountable issues) in the late bays with the brake fluid port coming off the bottom of the caliper rather than off the side like mine.

But at least I can be assured that these are the correct and likely original calipers for this year bus.

Thanks again!
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BusBerd
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? Reply with quote

BusBerd wrote:


My retaining pins definitly look like these ATE pins. There are no hairpins on the ends holding them in.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


this is my hardware:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


For the Girling hardware, most of the auto parts sites have a photo that does not show any retaining pins. Just the hairpins and the spreader spring.https://www.busdepot.com/13106


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The hardware for my Girling caliper was delivered today and there are no retaining pins included in the hardware. I don't understand why. Anyone know where to get the retaining pins for a Girling caliper???
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kreemoweet
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? Reply with quote

So, do the ATE-style pins that you say were in your calipers actually work?
If so, why not use them, or perhaps new ones, which seem to be readily available?

Heritage Parts Centre lists a hardware kit with the pins, but are not in stock:
https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/us/251698151kit-brake-pad-fitting-kit.html
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BusBerd
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:58 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? Reply with quote

kreemoweet wrote:
So, do the ATE-style pins that you say were in your calipers actually work?
If so, why not use them, or perhaps new ones, which seem to be readily available?

Heritage Parts Centre lists a hardware kit with the pins, but are not in stock:
https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/us/251698151kit-brake-pad-fitting-kit.html


Yes, I can continue to use them in a pinch, but I'd like to get the correct retaining hardware.

Thanks for the link to heritageparts. Bummer they are out of stock. But, I started searching again and found a set of the correct hardware on ebay. I'm paying way too much for this unnecessarily, I know. But what the hell. It brings me joy to know that it is not jury-rigged.
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BusBerd
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? Reply with quote

Here is a question:

Is there any reason that I cannot replace the girling calipers with the more common ATE calipers?

I was just notified by rockauto.com that their online inventory was incorrect and they do NOT have a right girling caliper to send to me. At this point, I am wondering if I should just install the more common ATE calipers and be done with it. I am assuming they are interchangeable, correct???

I want to get back on the road...

(Also, FYI, "rockauto.com" has literally ZERO customer service. good luck with order changes, shipping questions, or anything else. I will never be using them again.)
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kreemoweet
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? Reply with quote

Yes, ATE and Girling calipers are 100% interchangeable, provided both wheels use the same brand.
There are also no-name ATE clones from Brazil and elsewhere that seem to
be OK according to some posts here.
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BusBerd
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? Reply with quote

So I received my caliper pistons today. I ordered "Girling Caliper Pistons". They were labeled specifically as Girling Caliper Pistons on the website. however they sure look like ATE Caliper pistons to my untrained eye. My question is:
Can I use these in my Girling calipers?
If so, do I NEED new ATE piston backing plates to match these pistons?

They seem to be the same size as my old pistons.

Photo of all 3 new pistons:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


close up of the piston with the ATE ledge on the top:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


close up of new piston on the left next to my old girling piston on the right
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


close up of bottom of the new piston on the left next to the bottom of my old girling piston on the right
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


old piston measurement
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


new piston measurement:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Old piston measurement:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


New piston measurement:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Old piston measurement:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


New piston measurement:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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kreemoweet
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? Reply with quote

Amazing. Bit by bit, your Girling calipers are being transformed into the ATE variety.
The remaining question is whether the dust boots will work with those ATE pistons (I assume
you have new Girling boots?).
Quite a few here with ordinary ATE calipers have reported they work fine without the piston
retaining plates.
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BusBerd
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? Reply with quote

kreemoweet wrote:
Amazing. Bit by bit, your Girling calipers are being transformed into the ATE variety.
The remaining question is whether the dust boots will work with those ATE pistons (I assume
you have new Girling boots?).
Quite a few here with ordinary ATE calipers have reported they work fine without the piston
retaining plates.


Yup,

when I took them off there were no piston retaining plates. I'm just trying to do the job right. With that said, I am tempted to put these in just to get me rolling again until I can either locate the correct parts or bail on the Girling altogether and get the fricken ATE calipers.
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kreemoweet
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? Reply with quote

BusBerd wrote:
...when I took them off there were no piston retaining plates.


Actually, the Girling plates retain nothing. They just ensure the pistons apply their force on the correct end of the
pads. The ATE plates do the same, but do so by forcing the correct orientation of the specially shaped piston heads.
Once correctly oriented, the ATE pistons are not likely to change in use, and perhaps that's why so many say they
run without them with no problem.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? Reply with quote

kreemoweet wrote:
BusBerd wrote:
...when I took them off there were no piston retaining plates.


Actually, the Girling plates retain nothing. They just ensure the pistons apply their force on the correct end of the
pads. The ATE plates do the same, but do so by forcing the correct orientation of the specially shaped piston heads.
Once correctly oriented, the ATE pistons are not likely to change in use, and perhaps that's why so many say they
run without them with no problem.



Mmmm....no. The ATE pistons actually change orientation quite a bit. It really depends on your pad backing plate hardness and how you drive and how hard you brake from everything I can figure from my experience.

Simply put....if you use pad shims like the Raybestos or Wagner where the pistosn can leave an indentation of a few thousandths....you are right they never seem to move. If you are right on the back of the average steel backed pad....they move.

I highly recommend pad shims either way. They are great at keeping squeal away. Ray
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