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fatbastard Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2021 Posts: 5 Location: Alaska
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:47 pm Post subject: Quiet CV shafts replaced, now they knock |
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My CV boots were torn so I brought the van in to a mechanic to inspect. They called and said the shafts and joints needed to be replaced. I said ok. There was no knocking or vibration prior to changing. I picked up the van, and now there is a loud knocking from the rear passenger side during right turns. The invoice noted this and said they guessed previous play in the shaft affected the cv joint cup, but they would have to tear apart the differential to be sure. Has anyone heard of this? I couldn’t get a straight answer about how they came to the conclusion the shafts and joints needed replacement other than the boots were torn. I asked for the old parts back and they couldn’t have been inspected as all the old grease was in them. Is it possible my quality German CV shafts were fine and the Chinese replacements are defective? Considering cleaning and reinstalling my old parts, but wanted to see if the mechanic’s explanation seems feasible before undertaking the job. |
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syncrodoka Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005 Posts: 11998 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: Quiet CV shafts replaced, now they knock |
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They installed subpar parts. Your CV flange is easily visible for inspection when they replaced the axle assembly. The differential is inside the tranny, not 2 separate units like American cars.
You can use this encounter with them as a gauge for future business with them. |
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ALIKA T3 Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009 Posts: 6315 Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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Yellow Rabbit Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2005 Posts: 1145
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Quiet CV shafts replaced, now they knock |
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First, check that the CV bolts are all torqued correctly. Perhaps they simply loosened. Second, clean, inspect, and repack your original joints and install them. Search CV boots on this forum to pick ones that will last. Hopefully they labeled them so you can swap sides.
They swapped in new axles because it’s quick and easy. In many cases this might be fine but aftermarket Vanagon parts can be total crap. |
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Chestercopperpot Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2017 Posts: 114 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Quiet CV shafts replaced, now they knock |
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Your old units, if oem, are superior to new unknown units.
I would rebuild your old ones -get new grease, bolts, schnorr washers and rockford boots.
Research the process its not hard at all, essentially you disassemble, inspect, and reassemble, lube, install. Just need to keep the balls orientated to where they come from on reassembly. |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32432 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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syncrodoka Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005 Posts: 11998 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: Quiet CV shafts replaced, now they knock |
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Reading comprehension
fatbastard wrote: |
I asked for the old parts back and they couldn’t have been inspected as all the old grease was in them. |
djkeev wrote: |
Go back to the shop and get your axles they took out!
Do it NOW before trash pick up day.
You will be wise to keep the originals and simply put new boots on them.
Dave |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50254
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: Quiet CV shafts replaced, now they knock |
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Maybe the new CVs needed to be lubed before they were installed and this step got skipped?
This is just one more thing you need to learn to do yourself if you are going to own a 30+ year old vehicle. |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32432 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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AZ Landshaper Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2009 Posts: 1698 Location: The Old Pueblo
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:06 am Post subject: Re: Quiet CV shafts replaced, now they knock |
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to quote the late Terence Mckenna. Re the shop you used :They dont know shit from shinola. _________________ Support Small Business.
-------------------------------------------------------
85 Weekender w/ EJ22
Previously
64, 71, 72, 73, 76, 81, 84, 85 & 87 Campmobiles and Westfalias
and a 67 bug. |
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mtnhome Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 488 Location: Summit County, CO
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:30 am Post subject: Re: Quiet CV shafts replaced, now they knock |
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Is your van an automatic? In my search for axles for a Subarugears install, I found a parts van with an auto trans. Pulled the drivers side axle off and found it was a manual trans axle, too long. It was hard to get off and I wondered why it was so tight when I was trying to pull it.
Wouldn't be surprised if the shop didn't know the difference. _________________ '84 Westy, '93 Subaru ej22 and Subarugears 5speed
Build thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=763098&highlight= |
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syncrodoka Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005 Posts: 11998 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Quiet CV shafts replaced, now they knock |
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They also asked about cleaning and reinstalling the old parts, not hard to conclude that they are on hand as opposed to being in the trash bin as you assume.
djkeev wrote: |
Where does this say the OP actually has the old axles?
They are full of grease .......
OP asked for them ......
Did OP actually take them after seeing the filth?
Asking for and actually having are two different things.
Dave |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15129 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Quiet CV shafts replaced, now they knock |
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is your van lifted any? an 85 maybe or with lift springs?
you may need to have the CV joints 'Phased' or "clocked" to each other.
this is very much not known outside the off road crowd.. street cars don't have the same articulation issues.
by aligning (phasing or clocking) the joints you then allow the inner and outer to complement each other through their full range of motion
out of phase joints could also shuck side/side creating a whump whump or tuk tuk type noise similar to a CV nak, nak, nak, sound.
or you could have CV joints that weren't installed properly where the inner cage isn't in the correct relationship to the outer cage.. that will break in very short order.
or you could have a cheap and out of spec made replacement cv joint.
Clocking/phasing joints on the axle
https://californiaperformance.com/technical-tips/cv-clocking/
https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=131978
Link
_________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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fatbastard Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2021 Posts: 5 Location: Alaska
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Quiet CV shafts replaced, now they knock |
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Hi all, thank you so much for your collective thoughts on this!
First, to clarify, I did retrieve my old Lobro shafts with the joints. The replacement shafts are Surtrak vw 8063 and 8052. I think these would be the right part numbers for my van, which is a 91 Westphalia automatic.
I plan to clean the old parts to see if they are still good, which is what I thought the shop would have done before replacing them. They wouldn’t come out and say it, but it sounded like their policy is to replace shafts if the boot is torn. I don’t know enough to judge whether that is a fair practice for a shop, given labor rates, relatively cheap cost of parts, etc., but I would have like to have been given the option of reusing the likely higher quality old parts if they were still good. As I said, they weren’t knocking and the new ones are.
I fully agree with the comment that this is the sort of stuff you need to be able to do yourself on these vans. For the last 15 years, my husband did this work, but he passed away recently and now I’m trying to figure out what has been done through VanCafe and other receipts. He is surely looking down and wondering why I entrusted our van to mechanics, but at some point, you trust that people portraying themselves as vanagon experts will steer you in the right direction. Because I’m not equipped to make van maintenance my new hobby, I was getting ready to sell the van (a very hard decision). Now it has a knocking sound it didn’t have before I paid $1100 for the service.
Anyhow, enough complaining.
The van does have an inch or two lift as we put on bigger wheels/tires. As someone mentioned, could this be enough to cause the new parts to not sit properly in place? If clicking was required, I’m sure we did that. My husband researched everything before doing it and he was a skilled mechanic.
Thanks again for all the help! I might post pictures of the cleaned up lobro parts if I’m not sure whether to reuse them. |
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fatbastard Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2021 Posts: 5 Location: Alaska
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Quiet CV shafts replaced, now they knock |
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* clocking, not clicking |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Quiet CV shafts replaced, now they knock |
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Lift from changing tire size does not change CV angles. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Quiet CV shafts replaced, now they knock |
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Take a year or two before you sell. A well maintained T3 is hard to find and even harder in the land of the midnight sun.
If you just want to tool around town , 5000 miles in 2 years, stick with it. _________________ .ssS! |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32432 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16801 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Quiet CV shafts replaced, now they knock |
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djkeev wrote: |
Fatbastard, so sorry for your loss.
Smart move grabbing the old axles!
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X2
very sorry for your loss.
we had a rash of aftermarket axles at the dealer i worked at where they were so bad, we'd literally do donuts for 10 mins until they 'freed up' and stopped making noise
total junk. thanks bean counters....
anyway your automatic axles are specific but i would wary of the aftermarket ones.
in a shop setting, no one wants to clean/re-pack/re-boot them due to time and mess and usually people think new is better. i'd be willing to bet that doing a service to your old axles will be a good investment.
shame on the shop for cutting the van loose like that. i'd throw the new axles thru their front window _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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fatbastard Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2021 Posts: 5 Location: Alaska
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Quiet CV shafts replaced, now they knock |
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Thank you for the kind words and condolences. I am in Anchorage. I’ll give it a go myself. YouTube videos can be really helpful as long as the source is considered. That said, if someone local has done this before, I wouldn’t say no to a second set of eyes and advice based on experience.
As to waiting a few years to sell, it’s been two. I drove up the Cassiar, but haven’t used it much since. Better to keep moving parts moving and allow someone else to enjoy it as much as we did. |
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