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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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 Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:25 am Post subject: 80mm cylinders not seating on WW Okrasa heads |
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This is a new one for me.
I recently swapped out my original Okrasa heads, due to a crack, with the Wolfsburgwest clones and my cylinders are not seating on the combustion chamber surface. Instead it appears the top fins are seating on the pad of the heads. I am using big bore AA cylinders. Anyone else experience this?
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Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: 80mm cylinders not seating on WW Okrasa heads |
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trim something!!   |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: 80mm cylinders not seating on WW Okrasa heads |
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| mark tucker wrote: |
| trim something!! |
That’s the plan, I’m just wondering if this is a common issue or I just am My Lucky.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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PeteSC
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 881
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| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:21 am Post subject: Re: 80mm cylinders not seating on WW Okrasa heads |
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Joe Ruiz built my 80x69.5 w/ WW heads/AA P&C's, and photos don't indicate that was an issue (looks like all of the fins are still present). I don't think the base of the heads were decked either. When your heads were opened up to accommodate the 80mm cylinder, did they also bore deeper into the head to raise compression?
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Ted2
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 246
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:18 am Post subject: Re: 80mm cylinders not seating on WW Okrasa heads |
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| There was an article in Hot VWs a while back by John Chabot (sp?). It mentions removing the top cooling fin. |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:01 am Post subject: Re: 80mm cylinders not seating on WW Okrasa heads |
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| PeteSC wrote: |
Joe Ruiz built my 80x69.5 w/ WW heads/AA P&C's, and photos don't indicate that was an issue (looks like all of the fins are still present). I don't think the base of the heads were decked either. When your heads were opened up to accommodate the 80mm cylinder, did they also bore deeper into the head to raise compression?
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No he just widened them.
I’ll have to see if I can find the Hot VWs article, it it would be good to know for future reference for others building a similar engine. It sucks putting something together and then it doesn’t work because of a fitting issue.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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fl59bug
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005
Posts: 1976
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: 80mm cylinders not seating on WW Okrasa heads |
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| July and August '15 HVWs |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: 80mm cylinders not seating on WW Okrasa heads |
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| fl59bug wrote: |
| July and August '15 HVWs |
Thanks!
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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Mr. Okrasa 
Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000
Posts: 727
Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: 80mm cylinders not seating on WW Okrasa heads |
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The FIRST time I opened up a set of W.West 36hp dual port heads for AA 80mm P/C's, the "shoulder" of the liner was really close to hitting the fin? I didn't cut any material off the sealing surface but thought to myself that I should make the counter bore in the head a little bit larger and about .035" deep just in case...
What I also noticed is the liners didn't have a consistent shoulder? Some were "normal" an other cyls. were really big. If you look at the photo, you will note that some material was taken off the counter bore, horizontal across the head but only enough for cyl. fin clearance. Some people fly cut across the whole bottom of the fin and actually weaken the fin by making them thinner.
Another "issue" that I read on another Samba thread is the valve job from manufacture was not good and there were "sealing" problems. So I checked myself and sure enough, when I touched the valve seats with fine stone, the valves were only contacting about 80% of the seat! So now when I build any engine with the W.West heads, they automatically get a 3 angle valve job.
Muchas Garcias! 
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Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: 80mm cylinders not seating on WW Okrasa heads |
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Thanks Joe for the information. I’ll relay it to my machinist when I take the heads in.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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chris fryer
Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2017
Posts: 82
Location: Australia
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Mr. Okrasa
Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000
Posts: 727
Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: 80mm cylinders not seating on WW Okrasa heads |
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Not to "hijack" this thread but another important "trim" I feel is necessary when installing AA VW 80mm P/C's is the area circled in red. The 10mm nut/washer always rides/rubs against the cylinder and won't allow to sit correctly! I trim the cylinder just enough so when I rotate the cyl. in the bore, it does not come in contact with nut/washer AND.......I also trim down 2 additional fins. Reason: If you don't do this, trying to fit the cylinder head tin is going to be next to impossible. For those of you who tried, you know what I'm talking about. The cyl. head tin has a "dip" in this area to go under and clear the nut/washer. Cheers
_________________
See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/
1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint
Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE
VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: 80mm cylinders not seating on WW Okrasa heads |
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| Mr. Okrasa wrote: |
Not to "hijack" this thread but another important "trim" I feel is necessary when installing AA VW 80mm P/C's is the area circled in red. The 10mm nut/washer always rides/rubs against the cylinder and won't allow to sit correctly! I trim the cylinder just enough so when I rotate the cyl. in the bore, it does not come in contact with nut/washer AND.......I also trim down 2 additional fins. Reason: If you don't do this, trying to fit the cylinder head tin is going to be next to impossible. For those of you who tried, you know what I'm talking about. The cyl. head tin has a "dip" in this area to go under and clear the nut/washer. Cheers
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Yep.
That happened, too.
I hope anyone who goes this route sees this thread otherwise they’re going to be a bit disappointed with their compression!
In my case I had the machinist cut the heads to the barrels would seal.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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RichardinNZ
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2011
Posts: 280
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:40 am Post subject: Re: 80mm cylinders not seating on WW Okrasa heads |
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I had a similar issue as the original poster with my 2mm fly cut stock heads and stock barrels. I ended up modifying the heads as per Mr Okrasa's photos, but as I wasn't able to get the heads to a machine shop I achieved a similar result with my Dremmel.
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Richard
'58 Beetle; NZ Assembled
Dual Carb 36hp
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