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Rockbound Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2017 Posts: 303 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:55 pm Post subject: Breather box help |
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So I’m having a blow by issue on my new motor while I’m breaking it in. 2276 big bore, big stroke, big cam, big valves and heads. Chromoly rings. It Was fine with break in oil no issues, was fine for about 500 miles after regular oil put in. Now I’m having massive blow by from the oil fill stand. Pumping oil into the carb. 1st I thought it was sucking the oil so I moved the breather up behind the motor and put a filter on it. Well I came to find out that the breather was pumping oil not being sucked. Because next time I drove it, it was spewing out of the filter all over the fan shroud and isn’t o the fan and all over the motor. Good times. So I bought a breather box and i have a question about it. This box does not seal. It has a lid that sits on tabs that keeps the lid about an 3/16 up from box. Is this normal or should that box be sealed?
I Plan on tapping into fuel pump block off to box, oil fill vent to box, both valve covers to box. Should I also go from box to air filter on carb?
Also upon checking compression I found 170 170 140 and 70. Obviously my blow by is coming from the low compression cylinders. I was told by the builder that that type of compression numbers are normal while breaking in and could take anywhere up to 2000 miles to break those rings in and the compression will eventually even out. Is this true?
Thanks for any input. |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Breather box help |
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170-140psi on three cylinders and 70psi on another is NOT normal during break in. BY ANY MEANS. Who ever told you that is an idiot.
Probably due to a broken ring or valve issue or something else. I would tear it down, maybe do a leak down test before. _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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earthquake Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008 Posts: 3984 Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Breather box help |
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Also check the louvered plate under the Gen/Alt stand, if its backwards it might being throwing oil up the stand.
eQ _________________ 74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Breather box help |
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Rockbound wrote: |
So I’m having a blow by issue on my new motor while I’m breaking it in. 2276 big bore, big stroke, big cam, big valves and heads. Chromoly rings. It Was fine with break in oil no issues, was fine for about 500 miles after regular oil put in. Now I’m having massive blow by from the oil fill stand. Pumping oil into the carb. 1st I thought it was sucking the oil so I moved the breather up behind the motor and put a filter on it. Well I came to find out that the breather was pumping oil not being sucked. Because next time I drove it, it was spewing out of the filter all over the fan shroud and isn’t o the fan and all over the motor. Good times. So I bought a breather box and i have a question about it. This box does not seal. It has a lid that sits on tabs that keeps the lid about an 3/16 up from box. Is this normal or should that box be sealed?
I Plan on tapping into fuel pump block off to box, oil fill vent to box, both valve covers to box. Should I also go from box to air filter on carb?
Also upon checking compression I found 170 170 140 and 70. Obviously my blow by is coming from the low compression cylinders. I was told by the builder that that type of compression numbers are normal while breaking in and could take anywhere up to 2000 miles to break those rings in and the compression will eventually even out. Is this true?
Thanks for any input. |
Think you need a different builder.... _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Matt Wilson Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2005 Posts: 2406 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Breather box help |
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To answer your breather box question, no, the box doesn't have to be sealed, it is allowing the engine to breathe in and out while using some sort of foam media to filter and keep dirt from coming in or too much oil puking out.
Some folks prefer a catch can method to not allow contaminated oil to drain back into the engine - you just have to be sure to drain the can when it's getting full. I always figured if the oil is drained to the sump and is then pumped to a filter before anything else, the drain-back method was okay for me. _________________ 1972 Standard Beetle
1969 Baja Beetle |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Breather box help |
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evanfrucht wrote: |
Who ever told you that is an idiot. |
^^^^^^^
THIS
Dale M. wrote: |
Think you need a different builder.... |
^^^^^^^
AND THIS _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Rockbound Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2017 Posts: 303 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Breather box help |
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earthquake wrote: |
Also check the louvered plate under the Gen/Alt stand, if its backwards it might being throwing oil up the stand.
eQ |
Yep it’s correct I checked |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Breather box help |
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Glenn summed up the situation pretty well.
But seriously... You got major issues. It's not a baffle or anything like that. Tearing into that sucker IS A MUST. Put a new top end on her maybe new heads depending how bad the damage is. _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Breather box help |
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evanfrucht wrote: |
Glenn summed up the situation pretty well.
But seriously... You got major issues. It's not a baffle or anything like that. Tearing into that sucker IS A MUST. Put a new top end on her maybe new heads depending how bad the damage is. |
I'd pull the head and the cylinder. Find the cause before it gets expensive.
Could be a tight valve or maybe the rings gaps lined up. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Breather box help |
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True. Start with the heads. Don't take a sledge hammer to the cylinders just yet!
It could be just a valve train problem. Ring alignment is probably not the issue if you said it had a 500 good smoke free miles, that pretty much stays where it's set from the beginning. If it started smoking suddenly or puking oil one day to the next then that's not good. If it was more gradual then that is better but still not a great sign. Either way it may not be too bad in the end.
Take off the valve covers and look at the valves moving while it gets turned over. Watch each one, you may find the issue. That being said 100psi loss/deviation is pretty bad, just keep that in mind. _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Breather box help |
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With that kind of compression reading and pumping that much oil, I am thinking wrist pin is wearing into side of cylinder from missing keeper.
Seen it before. _________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9131 Location: Canada
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: Breather box help |
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Compression tests should never vary by more than 10% across the cylinders. Do a leakdown test but my guess is leaking rings. You do not want to see anything over 3% loss and you'll be able to hear where it's coming from.
You're just trying to put a bandaid on a gushing artery by installing a breather box. Find a builder who knows something about engines
Hopefully it looks better than this treasure I found on a freshly built engien that wasn't re-tuned for the added bump in hp
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Rockbound Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2017 Posts: 303 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:56 am Post subject: Re: Breather box help |
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Thanks for the input guys. Was exactly what my thoughts are |
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Ohio Tom Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1657 Location: Marshallville Ohio
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Breather box help |
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Very likely scuffed up a piston and cylinder.
My guess:
Either piston size was too big, or the ring gaps were not enough.
Seen it several times with Forged pistons. You must run more clearance with a forged piston.
And bigger ring gaps when boosted. |
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Rockbound Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2017 Posts: 303 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Breather box help |
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Well I tore into the motor tonight. And found this in cylinder 4
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Breather box help |
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That explains it. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Breather box help |
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Ohio made a correct answer.
Was there heat defectors under the cylinders? _________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Breather box help |
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Looking at the latest Hot VWs October issue, Rockbound your buggy and you are in it on the “Dubs at the Lake” event on page 85.
Looks good. _________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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Rockbound Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2017 Posts: 303 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Breather box help |
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jsturtlebuggy wrote: |
Ohio made a correct answer.
Was there heat defectors under the cylinders? |
yes |
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Rockbound Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2017 Posts: 303 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Breather box help |
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jsturtlebuggy wrote: |
Looking at the latest Hot VWs October issue, Rockbound your buggy and you are in it on the “Dubs at the Lake” event on page 85.
Looks good. |
o nice! thanks for the heads up appreciate that. ill have to grab an issue up |
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