T3 Technique Ball Joints - Not created equal

[Christopher Schimke]

This thread is sort of a continuation of this thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=276274

But since these new T3 joints are actually coming to fruition, I figured it would be best to start a new thread. And just to keep things congruent, here's the info that was posted deep in that other thread about the new joints (originally posted April 28, 2021):

T3 Technique has taken on the HUGE (and expensive) challenge of having bespoke upper and lower ball joints made. The sample/prototypes of the new UBJs are excellent and are headed to production as we speak. The new lower ball joints needed a little refinement to get them up to my standards, but I think we are really close to pulling the trigger on those too. It will be a few months before we see tangible stock, but they are coming. Once I have some stock, I'd be happy to cut a sample apart to show you all the differences.

And, as some of you may have already read about, there will be a new tall version of the UBJs to help correct the geometry of a lifted van and help proved more UCA to spring clearance. In my lifted 2wd, these tall ball joints absolutely transformed the drivability, ride quality, stability, etc. It's like a completely different van. Below is a photo to show the difference between a stock length UBJ and the tall UBJ.

Today I received news that the new upper ball joints will be here right around the end of September, possibly early October. Pretty excited about that.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]

[Christopher Schimke]

I also received my sample/prototype lower ball joints and I'm REALLY stoked on these. I worked really hard with the engineers to get exactly what I wanted out of the new joints. I cut one of our new joints apart, along side a brand new low quality Vanagon ball joint currently on the market, to show what makes these new joints so special and what makes all other Vanagon lower ball joints on the market today so inferior and prone to failing in short order. The low quality joint that I cut apart is indicative of all Vanagon lower ball joints in the market today. Yes, I have cut apart all of the currently available joints on the market to prove it. There are some variations of the plastic design, but none of them have the proper support to prevent the joints from failing prematurely.

First, a shot of the new joints untouched (sorry for the crummy, raw photos). You can see they come with the correct wire circlips that actually fit properly and if you have a keen eye (and experience with low quality Vanagon lower ball joints), you can see the solid metal insert.

Now for the guts of the matter. First, look at how much grease is in the new joint compared to the low quality ball joint. I did not add or remove any grease for either joint. This is exactly how they looked when the boot was removed.

New T3 joint:

Low quality joint:

And below is the crux of it all...the reason I went down this ball joint road to begin with. The new T3 joint is on the left, the low quality, joint is on the right.

1) On the new T3 joint, see above the ball how there is a thin plastic liner backed up with a solid metal insert that is crimped to the joint body? That's the key! Now look at the low quality joint. See how there is a big gap between the plastic liner and the stamped upper cap/insert? The reason these low quality joints fail is because the load path is directed toward that plastic part and the cap/insert. The constant pounding the tire hitting bumps drives the ball toward that area. With no support in the low quality joint, the ball becomes loose prematurely leading to failure.
Because the new T3 joint has a plastic liner with full support, this will not happen.

2) The other key feature of the new T3 joint, and a problematic issue with the low quality joint, is articulation. Look at the open area under the boot where most of the grease goes. Notice that angle of the walls and opening size of the new T3 joint is greater than that of the low quality joint. Many of the low quality joints actually restrict suspension articulation by restricting joint movement. The new T3 lower ball joints allow full articulation.

Anyway, that's the latest on the new T3 ball joints. I'm pretty excited about this and wanted to share. The lower ball joints are still in the testing phase, but I'm hoping to have them to market sometime in the Spring of 2022.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]

[DanHoug]

holy cow, what an undertaking!! and thank you for filling a real need. kinda makes me want to saw my stamped bottom TRW joints for a lookee. have one cast bottom.

anyway, thank you for serving our community so well. amazing. Belly Up, folks. we've whined for years about cheap parts that don't last. these will come at a price that is in line with their quality. do it right, once.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[bobhill8]

Thank you Chris - looking forward to smoothing out my ride with both of these.
_________________
1986 Westy
1971 Squareback

[chrismsnt]

[Zeitgeist 13]

Christopher, you're an amazing asset to the community. Thanks!
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[candyman]

Yes please

[candyman]

What ride height is considered lifted? Im right at 19.25” on my syncro

[9.5isCanadian]

I’ll echo everyone’s appreciation and thanks.
Now that the pleasantries are out of the way.


How do I buy a set for my high top?

Take
My
Money


Owen
_________________
9 1/2 - missing a few pieces.

1987 Getaway Hightop
1980 Sunroof Vanagon
2018 BMW R Nine T
2012 Golf tdi

[erste]

Too good to be true!

[hans j]

Glad I've been waiting years to replace my bad lower joints!

On those uppers, is the joint in a different location than the stock version? I'm wondering if the SAI or roll center is the same.
_________________
1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181

[?Waldo?]

Thanks for your efforts Chris!

[VicVan]

Impressive work! Can't wait for my current ball joints to fail.
_________________
'90 Little Blue Truck, 2WD auto, FAS GenV 2.0 NA (AVH)

[skills@eurocarsplus]

i'm in for a set as well

question, are you going to make the lowers greaseable? i may have missed it but wanted to ask
_________________

[turbotype1]

[DigiMatrix]

Chris, thank you for being a top supplier for us! Let us know if/when we can pre purchase these please. I want on the list.
_________________
_________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me

[ALIKA T3]

I'm down!!! I'll definitely buy a few sets when I'm back. This is great timing with the junk we're plagued with nowadays.

Sh!t, I would have loved testing a set of these on my Syncro, I'm currently in Central America, and everything is taking its toll even on brand new everything. All I do is off-road pretty much.

Chris, hit me up if you want me to put the lowers to the test in Baja, I can get them in La Paz and swap them there on my way back up from Central America.
I'm exactly at 6107 Lbs ,2770Kgs) fully loaded right now, stock height, it was 510mm but it's back down to 480mm now from spring sag, weight and all. Still plenty droop and suspension motion.
98mm 16" Syncro front outer cv's , 108x32 mm Audi front inner cv's and 108x40mm 930 cv's everywhere else.

Aloha!
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget

[dobryan]

Oh my!

I'll order several sets.

Take my money.....
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[Jake de Villiers]

Beautifully done, Chris, as always!!

I knew there was a reason that I've been putting off replacing the lower ball joints for seventeen years...
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com

[greebly]

From https://wagenswest.com/how_to/how_to_images/bus_vanagon_balljoints/IMG_6155.JPG
I understand that the Lemfoerder balljoints were becoming hard to obtain. Given your willingness to support the Vanagon community and exemplary customer service I would buy them from you if I had not obtained a set of moog a year or so ago for my suspension overhaul. Do you have any differences with the Lemfoerder/Moog joints?