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Walty87
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2020
Posts: 172
Location: Central Valley
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 Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:06 pm Post subject: Cigarette lighter help! |
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So the wiring in my van was messed with quite a bit by the PO. A lot of weird stuff it seems… it’s a Country Homes Camper with a auxiliary battery addon, but I believe it’s been tampered with way after the conversion.
Anyways, what wires are supposed to plug into the back of the 12v cigarette lighter socket? Is it the plug with the one red and two brown wires in it that kinda looks like a “T” ? Right now the cigarette lighter had two black wires plugged onto the back of it? Not sure why lol
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Cigarette lighter help! |
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Knowing the year Vanagon will help.
IIRC, in stock form, there would be a red (+) brown (-) and blue/gray wire (+ from dash lighting) to the cigarette socket.
It's possible a PO is powering the stock cigarette lighter at dash with power from the aux battery system but two black wires? < shrugs >
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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Walty87
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2020
Posts: 172
Location: Central Valley
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Cigarette lighter help! |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Knowing the year Vanagon will help.
IIRC, in stock form, there would be a red (+) brown (-) and blue/gray wire (+ from dash lighting) to the cigarette socket.
It's possible a PO is powering the stock cigarette lighter at dash with power from the aux battery system but two black wires? < shrugs >
Neil. |
It’s an 84’ sorry! 1.9L
I found a little white plug housing that has a 1 red and 2 othe retires. . I’ll go take a better look. They looked brown, but maybe one was grey? Anyways, it was shaped like a T and two sockets. There’s also a little light bulb back there which I’m assuming was for the stock adapter?
It was my guess is that this was wired up for an aux battery which I currently don’t have. Your guess is as good as mine on why both were black |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Cigarette lighter help! |
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| Walty87 wrote: |
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
IIRC, in stock form, there would be a red (+) brown (-) and blue/gray wire (+ from dash lighting) to the cigarette socket.
It's possible a PO is powering the stock cigarette lighter at dash with power from the aux battery system but two black wires? < shrugs >
Neil. |
It’s an 84’ sorry! 1.9L
I found a little white plug housing that has a 1 red and 2 othe retires. . I’ll go take a better look. They looked brown, but maybe one was grey? Anyways, it was shaped like a T and two sockets. There’s also a little light bulb back there which I’m assuming was for the stock adapter?
It was my guess is that this was wired up for an aux battery which I currently don’t have. Your guess is as good as mine on why both were black |
Is the current cig lighter socket non stock?
The lightbulb is likely for the stock cig socket but assuming that bulb is an OE part, it would be on a blue/gray wire which is part of the dash light circuit.
That circuit is NOT fused.
Make sure that that blue/gray wire can not short out to nearby metal.
On P.97.58 in Bentley I don't see cig socket connector details. If a VOM or test light shows ~ battery voltage at that T plug, but no voltage after removing fuse 8, that T plug is likely for the stock cig lighter socket. Assuming that T plug is for the stock cig socket, it should have one red and two brown wires.
The stock radio plug shows as a T4 A four pin plug.
At this level of work you need wiring diagrams and a VOM.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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Walty87
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2020
Posts: 172
Location: Central Valley
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Cigarette lighter help! |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
| Walty87 wrote: |
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
IIRC, in stock form, there would be a red (+) brown (-) and blue/gray wire (+ from dash lighting) to the cigarette socket.
It's possible a PO is powering the stock cigarette lighter at dash with power from the aux battery system but two black wires? < shrugs >
Neil. |
It’s an 84’ sorry! 1.9L
I found a little white plug housing that has a 1 red and 2 othe retires. . I’ll go take a better look. They looked brown, but maybe one was grey? Anyways, it was shaped like a T and two sockets. There’s also a little light bulb back there which I’m assuming was for the stock adapter?
It was my guess is that this was wired up for an aux battery which I currently don’t have. Your guess is as good as mine on why both were black |
Is the current cig lighter socket non stock?
The lightbulb is likely for the stock cig socket but assuming that bulb is an OE part, it would be on a blue/gray wire which is part of the dash light circuit.
That circuit is NOT fused.
Make sure that that blue/gray wire can not short out to nearby metal.
On P.97.58 in Bentley I don't see cig socket connector details. If a VOM or test light shows ~ battery voltage at that T plug, but no voltage after removing fuse 8, that T plug is likely for the stock cig lighter socket. Assuming that T plug is for the stock cig socket, it should have one red and two brown wires.
The stock radio plug shows as a T4 A four pin plug.
At this level of work you need wiring diagrams and a VOM.
Neil. |
It’s definitely non stock cigarette lighter.
The bulb is on a grey and blue wire and it’s zipped to the tplug that’s laying back there which I’m assuming is the for stock cigarette lighter
PO put in an aftermarket stereo as well and it’s a wiring mess. Lol.
So these 2 brown wires and 1 red wire that’s on this t plug that’s also zipped with the blue and grey light bulb. This has to be from the stock cigarette lighter. Could I attach the red for positive off the tplug and both browns from Tplug as negatives and attach them onto this after market cigarette lighter? |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Cigarette lighter help! |
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Ok. If not used, ensure that blue striped wire and/or bulb is insulated and strapped.
Disconnect one battery at a time to tell if stereo is on starter or aux battery system.
Though the hole may need to be slightly enlarged, aftermarket USB outlet(s) can fit in OE cig lighter socket hole at dash. Some even have a voltage display.
This may not apply to the ASI or Riviera type camper van, but a PO might've **repurposed a stock red (#12 ?) wire from driver side battery box to dash to carry aux battery system power to a fuse at stock panel. Loads on that fuse might likely be cig outlet, stereo, possibly interior lights. But, if OE jumper wires, hard connections at backside of fuse panel weren't reconfigured properly, unintended loads might've ended up on the aux battery system.
On my formerly air cooled '81 Westfalia, I did that **mod. In hindsight, given the bullet style fuse panel design and current age, instead of doing that mod, I'd just run a new fused aux battery + wire to a new fuse panel for loads I wanted on the aux battery system.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Cigarette lighter help! |
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| Walty87 wrote: |
| So these 2 brown wires and 1 red wire that’s on this t plug that’s also zipped with the blue and grey light bulb. This has to be from the stock cigarette lighter. Could I attach the red for positive off the tplug and both browns from Tplug as negatives and attach them onto this after market cigarette lighter? |
I replied to your original post.
Yes. That zipped bundle is most likely for OE cig socket. As mentioned earlier, remove fuse #8, see if power ceases at that T connector.
The pin at T connector for brown wires serves as a junction; one brown ground wire splits off from there to supply ground to another load. Regardless, it's fine to use those brown wires as is.
If OE wires are unmolested, still connected to proper OE points (ground, fuse), they should work fine for an aftermarket cig lighter socket supplying power to typical smaller loads like a cell phone or two.
The terminals can be removed from the T housing and might fit the aftermarket cig socket male connections but at minimum, the red wire terminal would require insulation. e.g. double walled shrink wrap. Detail matters here. Personally, if I was married to a cig socket, I'd use the OE part, leave OE wiring alone.
This is "hair splitting" at some level but online charts, info, show Amp capability of a given wire gauge. (calculate using entire circuit. Include ground wire length, gauge). Though a fuse properly rated to a given circuit should blow before a wire starts to heat up, do consider Amp capacity of wiring. e.g. a laptop with a large capacity low battery via 110 VAC -> 12 volt DC inverter might exceed Amp capacity of OE Vanagon wires.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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Walty87
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2020
Posts: 172
Location: Central Valley
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Cigarette lighter help! |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
| Walty87 wrote: |
| So these 2 brown wires and 1 red wire that’s on this t plug that’s also zipped with the blue and grey light bulb. This has to be from the stock cigarette lighter. Could I attach the red for positive off the tplug and both browns from Tplug as negatives and attach them onto this after market cigarette lighter? |
I replied to your original post.
Yes. That zipped bundle is most likely for OE cig socket. As mentioned earlier, remove fuse #8, see if power ceases at that T connector.
The pin at T connector for brown wires serves as a junction; one brown ground wire splits off from there to supply ground to another load. Regardless, it's fine to use those brown wires as is.
If OE wires are unmolested, still connected to proper OE points (ground, fuse), they should work fine for an aftermarket cig lighter socket supplying power to typical smaller loads like a cell phone or two.
The terminals can be removed from the T housing and might fit the aftermarket cig socket male connections but at minimum, the red wire terminal would require insulation. e.g. double walled shrink wrap. Detail matters here. Personally, if I was married to a cig socket, I'd use the OE part, leave OE wiring alone.
This is "hair splitting" at some level but online charts, info, show Amp capability of a given wire gauge. (calculate using entire circuit. Include ground wire length, gauge). Though a fuse properly rated to a given circuit should blow before a wire starts to heat up, do consider Amp capacity of wiring. e.g. a laptop with a large capacity low battery via 110 VAC -> 12 volt DC inverter might exceed Amp capacity of OE Vanagon wires.
Neil. |
My bad Neil I must’ve missed what you said, or I had too much going on in my mind and didn’t retain it. Either way. Sorry!
So I took the terminals out of the T plastic housing and hooked them up to the aftermarket cig lighter and it works! Now I have to insulate the red positive on the back of the cog lighter? Any recommendations? Electrical tape?
I don’t plan on charging anything major. Just some iPhones. If and when I want to charge a fridge or something I’ll be getting an auxiliary system or portable solar generator thrown in here.
Actually, you mentioned you can get cigarette lighter usb plug in that show voltage? Would that voltage be what the starter battery (since this cigarette lighter is hooked up to it) is putting out? Like would that be a good way to constantly see voltage my starter bat is sitting at?
Thanks again so much. This is all kinda making sense. I’ve learned so much from this forum! Love sporting my samba shirt!
-Walty |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:18 pm Post subject: Re: Cigarette lighter help! |
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| Walty87 wrote: |
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
I replied to your original post.
.... at minimum, the red wire terminal would require insulation. e.g. double walled shrink wrap. Detail matters here.
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My bad Neil I must’ve missed what you said, or I had too much going on in my mind and didn’t retain it. Either way. Sorry!
So I took the terminals out of the T plastic housing and hooked them up to the aftermarket cig lighter and it works! Now I have to insulate the red positive on the back of the cog lighter? Any recommendations? Electrical tape?
Actually, you mentioned you can get cigarette lighter usb plug in that show voltage? Would that voltage be what the starter battery (since this cigarette lighter is hooked up to it) is putting out? Like would that be a good way to constantly see voltage my starter bat is sitting at?
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Oh no problem. I meant I replied to a post of yours' before you edited it. (or so it appeared to me)
The double wall shrink tube I referred to might be overkill. Regular shrink tube should be fine. The double wall stuff (I think that's what it's called) has glue on the ID that when heated, melts and glues to the part. When I put shrink tube on a bare connector, I leave it a bit long then trim it back flush to connector end. And yes you could add a layer of electrical tape. The easier thing is to cut the wire and crimp on an insulated female push connector.
Since the OE connector is good quality, you could gentley close the ends a bit so it fits tight to the male connector at socket.
Connecting the socket in this manner is not ideal but it should hold up ok. i.e. I don't think time and vibration should cause them to come loose.
The ** USB thing I referred to could be installed in place of the cig lighter socket. I was thinking if aux battery power ran to dash, that gizmo would show you that battery voltage. But, knowing starter battery voltage is also handy. In either case, the display would show approximately what your alternator is putting out which can be useful info.
** The cover is easily removed:
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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