Hard Brake Issues - hard to stop!!

[vwnc]

Pulled my '67 bus out of the garage after sitting for 8 years and freshen it up. The wheel cylinders were stuck and leaked a little brake fluid. Changed all the wheel cylinders, rubber hoses and brake shoes back and front. Bleed the brake system and adjusted the brakes. I got hard pedal which is good with no "spongy" issues. However, when apply pressure to the brake pedal, the bus will slow down but not stop. Feels like the brake shoes have grease on them. The only thing I can think of is a faulty master cylinder which is over 20 years old. Wanted to get some ideas from you guys. Thanks in advance.

[Wade]

(Edit: Whoops. Saw that you already replaced the rubber hoses. The advice below is good. Cheers.).

Hello. I'll bet you anything that your soft rubber brake lines have swollen up on the inside and are stopping fluid pressure from making it to your wheel cylinders. Even if the outer rubber looks great the inners can be swollen. I would consider replacing them all.

Good luck with your project!
-Wade

[NUTSFORBUSES]

Here's an idea. Redo the entire brake system starting at the MC Dual circuit w disc's in front. Brakes are the most important system in a Bus with todays drivers and cars. Ever notice how there are so many Mario Andretti's (I was gonna say assholes but I would never say that) Brakes need to be correctly seated, so maybe that is one of the issues-they do get better. Makes no sense to NOT use better brakes when they are available. It would be nice to just go stock, but not me. Nearly every car out there can stop on a dime (40 to zero), but you can't and the way they pull in front of a Bus is just too risky. I went 4 wheel disc b/c I love to drive my Bus.
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[frenchroast]

Check that the shoes are arced to match the drums. Pull the drums and if you see shiny high spots, file those down then visually inspect that the full length of the lining is in contact with the drum. You can also use a feeler gauge to find low spots. That can increase the contact patch significantly.

Years ago, when I would buy new linings and have the drums turned, they would arc the shoes to match each drum individually but these days I just do it myself with a file. Sandpaper on the bench works too.

[busdaddy]

^This^
Most shoes need to be arced to fit the drums well, nobody does it commercially anymore so it's up to you. Some sticky backed sand paper on the inside of the drum and some careful hand rubbing of the shoes for that drum against it will do a pretty good job, wear a mask and don't blow the dust around afterwards.
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[52 split]

nice tip about sticky sand paper, and mask for sure.

[74 Thing]

Arcing shoes photos half way down on this thread:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...;start=140

[frenchroast]

[frenchroast]

[vwnc]

Thanks for all the suggestions and particularly the thread on the truing the arch of the shoe to match the drum. Going that route first sanding them down.

[Erik G]

it isn't mentioned that you adjusted the break shoes either - they have to be manually adjusted, not automatic like a lot of cars. yes with the arching but you still should have been able to stop if you adjusted them correctly prior to bleeding. I've never not been able to lock my brakes up stomping on the pedal, regardless of arching.

[vwnc]

Erik, yes, I adjusted the shoes. I've replaced many sets of brake shoes on multiple VWs I have or have had an don't recall running into this issue.

[galexander]

Sounds like a bad Master cylinder.
Try replacing it, make sure all brakes are adjusted, re bleed and see where you are.
good luck!
Gary
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Gary
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[busdaddy]

I'd look at the shoes first, betcha there's a few small shiny spots and a whole lot of untouched areas. Another re arcing job described on page two here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=713949&highlight=arcing
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[vwnc]

Replaced and the master cylinder and all is good! Thanks for the responses and advice.