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Removing the ignition switch
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Rifai.Ad
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:17 am    Post subject: Removing the ignition switch Reply with quote

Someone almost managed to run away with my 71 bug in December. He smashed the driver's door window and ripped the ignition cables from the ignition switch, and would've been home free if it wasn't for the discharged battery. I got my hands on a new window, but I'm stuck with hotwiring it until I can get the switch out and solder the cables back. Everyone on the net seem to take out the steering wheel to access the ignition switch - is this the one and only way? All I really need to do is solder the cables back on the switch to make her like new again.
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jarmchairpilot
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Removing the ignition switch Reply with quote

It's been about 7 years since I replaced my late 72 ignition barrell and wiring, I think you can do it with the steering wheel on but it's a question of luck regarding if it comes off at the first attempt or it fights back and stubbornly refuses to budge, I recommend trying it for 5 minutes because of the extra access room to work in.

Spray wd 40 or similar around under the horn press button on the centre of the steering wheel and let it soak in the night before.
It's just one big nut to crack, but most sockets are too thick and it needs a thin wall ,deep socket to fit in easy.

Make sure battery is disconnected regardless and park with wheels pointing dead straight, it's important and easy to mark the steering to keep alignment.
You will need a couple of Allen /hex keys.
There was a tiny,tiny hex grub screw, almost invisible to be taken out to get the old ignition barrell off, if yours is like mine.
Maybe take some quick photos of the original wiring in position before you start changing things so you don't forget how it goes back together.
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ashman40
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Removing the ignition switch Reply with quote

Rifai.Ad wrote:
Someone almost managed to run away with my 71 bug... Everyone on the net seem to take out the steering wheel to access the ignition switch - is this the one and only way? All I really need to do is solder the cables back on the switch to make her like new again.

'71 was the last model year that VW soldered the wires directly to the ignition switch. Here is a pic of the aftermarket '71 ignition switch I rebuilt.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

You can see the large blob of solder at the end of the wire and how large the brass/copper? terminals are. The terminals are pressed into the black plastic base of the switch.
I'm fairly certain the wires were soldered to the terminals and then the terminals were pressed into slots in the plastic. The terminals are barbed to prevent them from falling back out. On the OG VW switch the terminals were larger on the inside and were inserted from the inside out.

If your wires have been cut/ripped off the switch, you could attempt to solder the wires to the terminals while the switch is still installed in the steering column housing.. but since the terminals are relatively thick you will need to apply a fair amount of heat to get the solder and the terminal hot enough for a strong bond. The red, black and red/black wires carry a fair amount of current so you can't have a weak solder joint. It is likely the black plastic backing of the switch will melt before you get the wire and terminal hot enough. Maybe if you used some very low temp solder? But I don't think it will work and soldering upside down is no fun either... hot solder falling on your face/arm would ruin your day.


Removing the switch requires you remove the ignition switch assembly (lock+key cylinder+electrical switch) from the steering column housing and unscrew a small retaining screw that holds the switch into the assembly. #2 in the pic below. No short cut that I am aware of.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



IMHO, spend the $$ on a new ignition switch (electrical) and the time to remove/replace it from the steering column. The hardest part will be removing the steering wheel center nut. You sort of need one person holding the wheel while one person uses a breaker bar to loosen the nut... all the while trying NOT to loose any teeth or end up with bloody knuckles.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road Sad }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}
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adventurebob
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Removing the ignition switch Reply with quote

Its actually pretty easy. I did mine in about an hour.
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Rifai.Ad
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:00 am    Post subject: Re: Removing the ignition switch Reply with quote

ashman40 wrote:
Rifai.Ad wrote:
Someone almost managed to run away with my 71 bug... Everyone on the net seem to take out the steering wheel to access the ignition switch - is this the one and only way? All I really need to do is solder the cables back on the switch to make her like new again.

'71 was the last model year that VW soldered the wires directly to the ignition switch. Here is a pic of the aftermarket '71 ignition switch I rebuilt.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

You can see the large blob of solder at the end of the wire and how large the brass/copper? terminals are. The terminals are pressed into the black plastic base of the switch.
I'm fairly certain the wires were soldered to the terminals and then the terminals were pressed into slots in the plastic. The terminals are barbed to prevent them from falling back out. On the OG VW switch the terminals were larger on the inside and were inserted from the inside out.

If your wires have been cut/ripped off the switch, you could attempt to solder the wires to the terminals while the switch is still installed in the steering column housing.. but since the terminals are relatively thick you will need to apply a fair amount of heat to get the solder and the terminal hot enough for a strong bond. The red, black and red/black wires carry a fair amount of current so you can't have a weak solder joint. It is likely the black plastic backing of the switch will melt before you get the wire and terminal hot enough. Maybe if you used some very low temp solder? But I don't think it will work and soldering upside down is no fun either... hot solder falling on your face/arm would ruin your day.


Removing the switch requires you remove the ignition switch assembly (lock+key cylinder+electrical switch) from the steering column housing and unscrew a small retaining screw that holds the switch into the assembly. #2 in the pic below. No short cut that I am aware of.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



IMHO, spend the $$ on a new ignition switch (electrical) and the time to remove/replace it from the steering column. The hardest part will be removing the steering wheel center nut. You sort of need one person holding the wheel while one person uses a breaker bar to loosen the nut... all the while trying NOT to loose any teeth or end up with bloody knuckles.


adventurebob wrote:
Its actually pretty easy. I did mine in about an hour.


Well, seems taking it all out is the way to go. I'll find some time, a cozy parking place and get to work. Better safe than sorry.
Much appreciated advices Smile
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Frodge
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Removing the ignition switch Reply with quote

So after removing the steering wheel how far do the wires go from the ignition switch to where they terminate?
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Removing the ignition switch Reply with quote

Frodge wrote:
So after removing the steering wheel how far do the wires go from the ignition switch to where they terminate?

Up and into the trunk area, where they connect.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
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ashman40
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Removing the ignition switch Reply with quote

Frodge wrote:
So after removing the steering wheel how far do the wires go from the ignition switch to where they terminate?

Here are the wires for a '71 and where they terminate:
    #30 red wire - INPUT, comes from the input side of fuse #8
    #15 black wire - OUTPUT, run to the input side of fuse #11. This wire powers fuses #10-#12.
    #X black/yellow wire - OUTPUT, junctions with a red/black wire that eventually runs to the X terminal of the headlight switch
    #50 red/black wire - OUTPUT, runs to a junction with a thick red wire that runs into the main harness that runs to the space under the left rear seat and eventually connects to the starer solenoid #50 terminal
    #SU grey wire - OUTPUT, runs to a junction before connecting to the left door switch and eventually to the door buzzer

They all terminate or junction with other wires in the trunk space behind the dash. Your best approach is to find the existing harness of wires as it passes into the trunk space. Look for the heavy gauge red and red/black wires in the harness. Follow all the wires in the ignition switch harness and disconnect them. Pull the harness back into the cabin below the steering column. When you pull the ignition switch lock assembly out the top of the steering column the ignition switch harness will still be attached. Replace/repair the switch and feed the wiring harness back thru the steering column housing and back thru the hole in the underside of the dash. Reconnect all the wires to the same spots you disconnected them from.
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road Sad }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: Removing the ignition switch Reply with quote

My 2 cents is to fish the wires all the way through to the trunk area and connect them properly. I've seen too many VWs where folks got lazy and just used crimp-type butt connectors under the dash to connect the wires.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
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