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Qldelsie Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2019 Posts: 518 Location: Queensland Australia
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Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:03 am Post subject: VW Wheel offset (ET) variations |
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When I pulled my 1970 Fastback apartafter purchase in 2019 / 2020, I found the following wheels on the car :-
3 x ET 46 4 x 130 mm, 4.5 x 15
1 x ET 41 4 x 130 mm, 4.5 x 15
1 x ET 40 4 x 130 mm, 4 INCH !!! x 15
(The ET of the 4.5" rims is stamped on the wheel, but on the 4" wheel it just has "VW" and "69 /6". I measured the ET at 40)
I can buy "new" wheels (ex China) from the local VW parts supplier and I am told they are ET 45.
Today I purchased 2 used wheels from interstate, both 4 x 130 mm, 4.5 x 15, but when they arrived I found one was ET 41 (so I deduce it is in fact off a Super Beetle, '71-'79) and the other was ET 35 (so is apparently off a standard Beetle, '68-'7.
I have searched on here, and elsewhere, and eventually found this, which seems to be the most comprehensive listing of all the different wheels in one place (although it doesn't list my 4" wheel !) :-
The puzzle here is how much we need to be concerned about mixing wheels with different offsets ? As long as they are "similar", are on the same axle, and of course clear brakes / suspension etc, there should not be an issue, right ? After all, we are not exactly talking about high performance cars here, with highly tuned modern suspension !
Given that probably many of our cars have had their wheels mixed and matched or even replaced over the years, I was wondering if people on here have also got mixed ET's on their cars ? Or even know what they have got ? And, more importantly, whether there is any known problem with running non ET 46 offsets on our Type 3's ? |
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Typ3nut Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2002 Posts: 1188 Location: MI, MotorCity ManCave
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Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: VW Wheel offset (ET) variations |
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http://vw.zenseeker.net/Wheels-BoltPattern.htm
Yes, This list is a good reference for VW Wheels.
Here's a post that has another list for Lemmerz Wheels and "ET"
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726250&highlight=offset
This list has the 4" wheels, either ET33 or ET40.
Most don't even know that there is a difference, ET46 is for our Type 3's but ET41 will work with 165/15 tires.
But when you want wider tires, then use the stock steel Porsche 914, 5 1/2 x 15 wheels, ET40 is what works for clearance in front and rear. |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22356 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: VW Wheel offset (ET) variations |
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Qldelsie wrote: |
When I pulled my 1970 Fastback apartafter purchase in 2019 / 2020, I found the following wheels on the car :-
3 x ET 46 4 x 130 mm, 4.5 x 15
1 x ET 41 4 x 130 mm, 4.5 x 15
1 x ET 40 4 x 130 mm, 4 INCH !!! x 15
(The ET of the 4.5" rims is stamped on the wheel, but on the 4" wheel it just has "VW" and "69 /6". I measured the ET at 40)
I can buy "new" wheels (ex China) from the local VW parts supplier and I am told they are ET 45.
Today I purchased 2 used wheels from interstate, both 4 x 130 mm, 4.5 x 15, but when they arrived I found one was ET 41 (so I deduce it is in fact off a Super Beetle, '71-'79) and the other was ET 35 (so is apparently off a standard Beetle, '68-'7.
I have searched on here, and elsewhere, and eventually found this, which seems to be the most comprehensive listing of all the different wheels in one place (although it doesn't list my 4" wheel !) :-
The puzzle here is how much we need to be concerned about mixing wheels with different offsets ? As long as they are "similar", are on the same axle, and of course clear brakes / suspension etc, there should not be an issue, right ? After all, we are not exactly talking about high performance cars here, with highly tuned modern suspension !
Given that probably many of our cars have had their wheels mixed and matched or even replaced over the years, I was wondering if people on here have also got mixed ET's on their cars ? Or even know what they have got ? And, more importantly, whether there is any known problem with running non ET 46 offsets on our Type 3's ? |
John Jaranson did a nice write up on rims and rim widths here in the t-3 forum, but my search foo sucks. What he found was the 4.5X15 painted steel rim that CIP sold was very similar to the type 3 rim and could be used for a replacement in a pinch. The hub cap might not work with those rims today, since they've modified them. A lot of the issues you run into other rim offsets, is clearance when lowering.There's all sorts of discussions on lowering, and rim offsets and widths are where most start, and the amount of drop plays a big part of the conversation in those offsets and widths.
Myself, I prefer the car to have the same rims on all 4 corners, widths and offsets the same. For a stock t-3, that an ET46 rim. Anything less and you start changing things like rim centers, which can change bearing loads.
My Notch for example is running a 5.5 wide rims, of unknown offset (but all 5 are the same rim). My 64 T-34 Ghia had 5 ET46 wide 5 rims on it. My wife's 70 Fastback is running American Eagle 8 spokes on it. It has an ET of 25 which means I can't lower it due to the offset, but all 4 will fit and are the same width and offset.
I think we've determined that ET 41 rims are from a super beetle, and were also used on late T-1 based Karmann Ghias. Any 4 lug 4 inch wide rim is a bug rim from 68 thru 78. Note that rim is a 1/2 inch narrower than a t-3 rim, and limits how wide a tire you can run on it.
Personally, I'd try to get 4 rims that match each other, whether black painted, silver painted, chrome plated, or aluminum. As long as they match widths and offsets you should be good to go. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Qldelsie Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2019 Posts: 518 Location: Queensland Australia
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Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: VW Wheel offset (ET) variations |
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Excellent info - Thanks guys.
Yes Bob, agree with you on keeping them all the same ET, whatever you have got. I have all ET 45/46 on all four wheels on the car. My spare wheel on the car has an ET 41, and I was just trying to save money by keeping that as the spare, only for emergency use, etc, and not buying another wheel.
Now I am building the camping trailer that has been discussed elsewhere, and I was planning to run the same VW wheels on that so that I could keep the weight down by not having to carry a second spare wheel - I could just use the car's spare wheel if I needed to. So I went to the local parts people and they are out of stock of new ET45 wheels (made in China), with no stock due in until late November. (Covid manufacturing, stock, and freight delays) So I went hunting second hand - Not as easy as it seems to be for you guys in the USA !!! Eventually I found some interstate, the guy had two, and sent them to me yesterday, but on arrival I found one was ET 41 and the other was ET 35. So my plan now is to use the spare ET41 from my car, and match it with the ET41 I received yesterday, and these can go on the trailer as a matching pair. I will then keep the ET 35 wheel as my spare both for the car and for the trailer.
The general consensus seems to be that whether your wheels are ET 46, ET 41, or ET 35, it really doesn't matter on a standard car, as long as you at least have wheels with matching ET's on each axle, although preferably matching ET's on all 4 corners.
I find that many people I talk to, even in VW Aircooled parts shops, do not really think or know about about ET variations, so I wonder if perhaps many owners are also unaware of them, and the effect they can have on the car ? Because our cars are older and are likely to have had wheel changes over 50 or so years like mine did, I suggest people should check their wheels and their ET's to make sure they do match. If the reading is not stamped on the wheel, or is illegible, it only takes 10 seconds to make two measurements and subtract one from the other to find the true ET.
Thanks again. |
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gt1953 Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002 Posts: 13842 Location: White Mountains Arizona
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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:01 am Post subject: Re: VW Wheel offset (ET) variations |
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On my Squareback like you have ET46 on the rear and ET 41 on the front...still searching for a couple of 46's. They will show up eventually. _________________ Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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Qldelsie Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2019 Posts: 518 Location: Queensland Australia
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Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:28 am Post subject: Re: VW Wheel offset (ET) variations |
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gt1953 wrote: |
They will show up eventually. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:44 am Post subject: Re: VW Wheel offset (ET) variations |
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Qldelsie wrote: |
When I pulled my 1970 Fastback apartafter purchase in 2019 / 2020, I found the following wheels on the car :-
3 x ET 46 4 x 130 mm, 4.5 x 15
1 x ET 41 4 x 130 mm, 4.5 x 15
1 x ET 40 4 x 130 mm, 4 INCH !!! x 15
(The ET of the 4.5" rims is stamped on the wheel, but on the 4" wheel it just has "VW" and "69 /6". I measured the ET at 40)
I can buy "new" wheels (ex China) from the local VW parts supplier and I am told they are ET 45.
Today I purchased 2 used wheels from interstate, both 4 x 130 mm, 4.5 x 15, but when they arrived I found one was ET 41 (so I deduce it is in fact off a Super Beetle, '71-'79) and the other was ET 35 (so is apparently off a standard Beetle, '68-'7.
I have searched on here, and elsewhere, and eventually found this, which seems to be the most comprehensive listing of all the different wheels in one place (although it doesn't list my 4" wheel !) :-
The puzzle here is how much we need to be concerned about mixing wheels with different offsets ? As long as they are "similar", are on the same axle, and of course clear brakes / suspension etc, there should not be an issue, right ? After all, we are not exactly talking about high performance cars here, with highly tuned modern suspension !
Given that probably many of our cars have had their wheels mixed and matched or even replaced over the years, I was wondering if people on here have also got mixed ET's on their cars ? Or even know what they have got ? And, more importantly, whether there is any known problem with running non ET 46 offsets on our Type 3's ? |
Nice list!.....and yet....nothing about 411 or 412 in the list....and they made twice as many of those than 914 and 912 combined!
Ray |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13247 Location: Tejas!
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Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:05 am Post subject: Re: VW Wheel offset (ET) variations |
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that list is wrong anyways, widths are off as is the backspace / offset |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:41 am Post subject: Re: VW Wheel offset (ET) variations |
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Erik G wrote: |
that list is wrong anyways, widths are off as is the backspace / offset |
I thought some of those looked a little odd. While the chassis is totally different from my 411/412's...the rear brake assembly and stub spacing are identical in every part # for late type 3 and all type 4.
The type 4 wheel part # is 311 601 025 C...for all years and models of 411/412.
It is listed as "wheel Disc" 4.5J x 15.
While my car has not had stock rims on it in maybe 25 years....I have mid 90's 5.5" mangles chromies....which fit both type 4 and type 3 very well...they were part numbered for type 3.....I do have the stock spare tire on the original rim. When I get home I can check that and measure the chrome rims. Ray |
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Typ3nut Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2002 Posts: 1188 Location: MI, MotorCity ManCave
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Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: VW Wheel offset (ET) variations |
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These Lemmerz Charts are correct and include Type 4
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17962 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:25 am Post subject: Re: VW Wheel offset (ET) variations |
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Typ3nut wrote: |
These Lemmerz Charts are correct and include Type 4
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I have a bunch of wheels stamped ET41 off of squarebacks, but I don't see them listed here? _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Typ3nut Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2002 Posts: 1188 Location: MI, MotorCity ManCave
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Qldelsie Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2019 Posts: 518 Location: Queensland Australia
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: VW Wheel offset (ET) variations |
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The upper list (that Erik says is wrong) says ET41's are off the "Super Beetle, 71-79". I too have a couple of 41's, so they are obviously not rare. When measuring off the rims of older wheels, that are sometimes not perfectly smooth, and you are then dividing that measurement by 2 before subtracting another measurement, I don't think a 1 mm difference is unreasonable to accept. So a factory official ET of 40 could well be the same as a home measured ET of 41 on a worn wheel ? Just a thought........ |
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