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toddb_67
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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 Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:26 pm Post subject: oil pickup tube loose in case |
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So as the title says, I went to do my first oil change on a newly acquired '74 Ghia with an all stock original 1600cc. For reference I have owned over 20 air cooled VWs so I'm not a newbie.
The first thing that made me scratch my head was the sump plate had no drain plug just the nuts/bolts that hold the sump plate on. I soldiered on and removed the plate and let the oil drain that way. I noticed too that there was only one stud with a nut and the rest were bolts holding the plate on. After I cleaned everything up I went to reinstall the sump plate I noticed that the oil pickup was just laying there. I could grab it and it is loose and flopping around in the case. I know that the tube is normally pressed in at the front of the case (back of the car).
My question is, can it be reinstalled without splitting the case? What's the trick? I tried for about 10 minutes and then it started raining (note my location  ) so I had to quit. Any suggestions? I certainly can't run it this way, right?
_________________
1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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67rustavenger 
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Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9756
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: oil pickup tube loose in case |
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Unless you're really lucky and have steady hands. It's gonna be difficult to get the pickup tube back into the oil galley.
Sorry to say that. But the pickup tube is a fairly precise installation inside the case.
The last (only) one I ever pulled. Took a bit of fiddling to get it back in place and sealed.
Maybe you can make the case spit a winter project. But that's what will need to be done.
Hopefully someone comes up with a good idea to help ya.
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I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
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toddb_67
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: oil pickup tube loose in case |
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| The main issue is sight. If you could get one of the borascope cameras to help see where the tube needs to go, that would help. Heating the case around the area a little with a propane torch can allow the magnesium to expand, and help with getting the tube back in. Can it be done? Yes. With 137k, would I rebuild the engine to open the case and get the pickup 100% installed correctly? Yes. |
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Paul Jr
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2018
Posts: 458
Location: PA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: oil pickup tube loose in case |
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Are you saying the sump is completely out on the front side of the block and flopping around or that it moves freely on somewhat up and down motion.
Seems a rather odd amount of movement to be able to come completely out if it had an oil screen in there.
I recently changed out the sumps that came in my aluminum blocks for factory German ones and had a heck of a time pulling the donors out of the bad blocks I took them from.
It also wasn’t the easiest thing installing them into thier new homes so I am a little confused how one could come completely out. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76902
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: oil pickup tube loose in case |
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It should of been held in my one pf the M6 studs.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: oil pickup tube loose in case |
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| If the other attachments were bolts instead of studs, it’s anyones guess as to what else the previous owner(s) have done. One engine I worked on had the sump nut installed with a ratchet while the nut’s threads were stripping. It was enough force to spin the attachment stud ever so slightly so that it was no longer clamping the tang on the pickup. Vibrations fatigued the tang until it simply cracked/fell off. Then without the securing tang, the vibrations did the rest to allow the pickup to come loose. |
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oprn
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Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12709
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:44 am Post subject: Re: oil pickup tube loose in case |
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At 137K it is highly unlikely that the engine is original. With the studs missing and the pickup loose... yes take it apart and fix whatever else has been farmer fixed in there!
The solid drain plate if I recall came out in later years in an attempt to force you to clean the screen on every oil change.
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Cusser
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Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31361
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:37 am Post subject: Re: oil pickup tube loose in case |
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| oprn wrote: |
| The solid drain plate if I recall came out in later years in an attempt to force you to clean the screen on every oil change. |
Yes.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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toddb_67
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:45 am Post subject: Re: oil pickup tube loose in case |
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Appreciate all the advice. I am going to pull the engine and tear it down for a rebuild. The pick up tube is literally loose and is able to be spun around in the case. The odds of me getting that back together are slim to none. It is in fact the original engine and I have documented proof of the 137K miles on it. All evidence supports those miles and while it drove fine I am going to rebuild it.
I'm thinking a 74 x 92(thick wall) = 1967cc with big valve heads and dual 34mm baby Webers. What do you guys think?
My parts guy is suggesting a Scat C25 cam with 1.25 ratio rockers.
Do you think the ratio rockers are necessary with that cam? Are the big valve heads (40 x 35.5) too much for this set up? I was thinking that this would be a good daily engine that won't be working too hard to make around 80HP.
Opinions are welcome!
_________________
1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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Max Welton
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Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 10697
Location: Black Forest, CO
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Max Welton
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Location: Black Forest, CO
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VW_Jimbo
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Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9955
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:37 am Post subject: Re: oil pickup tube loose in case |
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| Max Welton wrote: |
Where the pickup tube fits into the case there is an external plug (like a freeze plug). In this picture from the gallery you can see that plug to the right and below the oil pump.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=27788
Through that hole (pull the plug) you can guide the tube back into the case. Then use a tool to expand the tube into the case so it fits tight the way it should.
This does not require that the engine be taken apart.
Because if the tube got loose once, it will get loose again.
Max |
With the plug removed you can swedge the tube into the case.
There are swedging tools you can purchase for this. They resemble a stepped punch.
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Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
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toddb_67
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Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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Max Welton
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Joined: May 19, 2003
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Location: Black Forest, CO
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: oil pickup tube loose in case |
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| If it’s a documented original engine for an original car, I would leave it that way. Sure you still want to repair the pickup tube, but any hot rodding I would do with another engine. All I would do to the og engine would be a mild improvement, like a cam/compression, and keep the stock carb for stock appearance. 74x92 would be a nice engine, but not a fan of ict style 34mm carbs, or Scat cams. If you’re not building it though, it’s better to go with a recommendation from the builder. If you’re using larger heater boxes, or none at all, you could go with the bigger valved heads. |
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