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SyncroHead Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2005 Posts: 1145 Location: Northern Nevada
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: New Roof Rack for Vanagons |
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Schnippzle wrote: |
SyncroHead wrote: |
Schnippzle wrote: |
I do love a good roof rack. Will you be offering siderails for the racks? |
I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by "siderails".
Can you explain further?
Jim Davis |
Sorry, should have been more clear. Like the expedition rail that Front Runner offer for their racks. |
I found the expedition rails at the FR site, so now I know what you mean. The FR platform has no rails around the perimeter above the load-deck level, so there's no physical barriers to items sliding over (off?) the edge.
On the other hand, our rack has side rails which already are above the load deck to serve the function of the FR "expedition rail" function. It appears the optional FR accessory is higher than our side rails, but I don't think it's too significant. If there are more requests for higher side rails, we might consider addressing that.
Jim Davis _________________ "A Vanagon? It's not a car or a van. It's a hobby!"
Check out:
www.VANAVATION.com
www.SyncroSafari.org and
www.Vanagons.org
sphet wrote: |
I have *no* idea what the previous owner carried in his Westy... angry donkeys? |
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Schnippzle Samba Member
Joined: February 04, 2021 Posts: 288 Location: Swede in London, UK
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:49 am Post subject: Re: New Roof Rack for Vanagons |
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Ok, cool. |
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SyncroHead Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2005 Posts: 1145 Location: Northern Nevada
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:37 am Post subject: Re: New Roof Rack for Vanagons |
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The aluminum is powder coated and the stainless is black-oxide coated, so little opportunity for direct contact of the metals. Thanks!!
Jim Davis _________________ "A Vanagon? It's not a car or a van. It's a hobby!"
Check out:
www.VANAVATION.com
www.SyncroSafari.org and
www.Vanagons.org
sphet wrote: |
I have *no* idea what the previous owner carried in his Westy... angry donkeys? |
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SyncroHead Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2005 Posts: 1145 Location: Northern Nevada
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:47 am Post subject: Re: New Roof Rack for Vanagons |
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DuncanS wrote: |
How exactly is the clamping force to the gutter achieved? By this, I mean the pinching together force with the support down into the gutter and the underneath clamp pulling up. It appears that with slotted holes, the pieces are forced together by hand rather than a screwing clamping action and then tightened. And do you have a pic showing what the part of the tower landing on the inside of the gutter looks like? |
As kiltedhiker mentioned, a clamp is recommended during assembly. An example of the type recommended:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-12-in-100-lbs-T.../204389260
Here's a photo of a couple of the support feet. The bottom of the support foot is turned 90deg from vertical, so the load is spread out in the gutter. The bottom of the foot is about 5/8" wide.
Jim Davis _________________ "A Vanagon? It's not a car or a van. It's a hobby!"
Check out:
www.VANAVATION.com
www.SyncroSafari.org and
www.Vanagons.org
sphet wrote: |
I have *no* idea what the previous owner carried in his Westy... angry donkeys? |
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SyncroHead Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2005 Posts: 1145 Location: Northern Nevada
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:11 am Post subject: Re: New Roof Rack for Vanagons |
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djkeev wrote: |
At first glance one thinks "WOW! That's an expensive rack!"
Until one begins comparing........ |
I've done quite a LOT of comparing to all other racks I could find. 9 potential suppliers with a total of 14 different approaches.
I'd say the nearest may be Front Runner with their "SlimlineII" platform. That one starts at $1,865, with no tie-down points. Add some of those and it totals about $1,950 - $2,000 depending on ho many of the optional tie-down rings you get. If you ant to add more support feet like our heavy duty version, it totals over $2,200. Another difference is the size of the platform. They are about the same width, but the FR platform is about 16" shorter front-to-back, so a lot less overall load area.
Also looked at Rhino rack. They don't offer anything this size, but one could get two of their smaller racks. Total this way is over $3,000.
Jim Davis _________________ "A Vanagon? It's not a car or a van. It's a hobby!"
Check out:
www.VANAVATION.com
www.SyncroSafari.org and
www.Vanagons.org
sphet wrote: |
I have *no* idea what the previous owner carried in his Westy... angry donkeys? |
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SyncroHead Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2005 Posts: 1145 Location: Northern Nevada
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Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: New Roof Rack for Vanagons |
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DuncanS wrote: |
Thoughts from N. Picker.
The side pieces are split in half. Is that why there are so many feet? To keep them straight and not flex. Wonder what the moment connection is between the two.... |
The siderails are split in half for several reasons...
1. We offer a half-length rack for those that don't want to cover the whole roof and for DoKas.
2. Facilitates reasonable shipment. Shipping a 12' long anything creates enormous shipping limitations and expenses.
3. Installing a full rack onto the vehicle all at once would be problematic. Half at a time and then joining them is very manageable.
There are 12 support feet on the heavy-duty model to better distribute the load over more rain gutter space. Each foot is just over 7" long, so with 12 support feet this is about 85" of gutter support. If someone were to add a 400lb static load to the 100lb rack, this 500lbs would average just 42 lbs per support foot. The more the load is distributed the better.
Jim Davis _________________ "A Vanagon? It's not a car or a van. It's a hobby!"
Check out:
www.VANAVATION.com
www.SyncroSafari.org and
www.Vanagons.org
sphet wrote: |
I have *no* idea what the previous owner carried in his Westy... angry donkeys? |
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4583 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:10 am Post subject: Re: New Roof Rack for Vanagons |
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Excellent reasoning. Has anyone tested a rain gutter on a wrecked car to failure? It would be interesting to know what this point would be. I would imagine a 2" section might withstand three or four hundred pounds easily as the gutter is a double layer spot welded frequently. With the kind of well designed shaped foot you have, Jim, I can't imagine any failures. I suspect if you had a single foot at the joint giving three supports per side, there would be no way anything could fail. Maybe that small cost savings could help. Leave the mounting holes for the supports on the side rails where you have them, so half racks can work, but add some extra holes in the joiner for a six legged insect.
I'm also wondering if it is possible to be able to mount the side rails at a different height to supports. That way if the rails were mounted right side up, the platform would have cross rails flush with the top. However if someone wanted the "tray" feature where the sides project above the cross rails, they would have that versatility. That seems to be a feature many like.
Good luck with your project. It is well thought out.
Duncan
P.S. Since your topic was posted, I have been noticing aluminum tracks for pickup trucks for construction guys. The forward cross bar on many is over the windshield, yet the support post goes into the bed socket leaving a 4' or so overhang cantilevered to the cross member. I know guys regularly load up pressure treated 2 xs up there which are heavy as hell. And the side rails don't appear to be that beefy. If the driver were to load 500 pounds of material, the front cross member sees a 250 pound load with each side rail carrying 125 pounds on a 4' unsupported beam. If they failed, they would be outta biz in seconds. Hmmmm. Could you lighten your side rails to also help with the cost, I wonder? |
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xclemjustinx Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2016 Posts: 198
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: New Roof Rack for Vanagons |
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Do you happen to have any pics of the half length version? Do you know the dimension of this rack? How tall does it sit above the roof, width etc? Do the rain gutter supports have a foam/rubber material that protect the clamps from scratching/scuffing the rain gutters? Also have you designed a bracket for the ARB awning or will the Vanagonlife one somehow incorporate into this? I am curious in this rack. Thanks. |
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4583 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: New Roof Rack for Vanagons |
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SyncroHead--Funny, but this came up just now on another thread. This is the kind of upward forcing of the under gutter clamping action I was talking about.
https://www.amazon.com/Smittybilt-HDS-6-Heavy-Gutt...amp;sr=1-1
For the towers to be really secured to the gutter, it seems like something like this is needed.
If you click on the link, it says they will not fit a Vanagon. Wonder what that is about as they look OK to me.
The J shape you have on your foot is far superior to what Smittybuilt has. And the U channel bend stiffening your tower is better than just their flat plate.
Duncan |
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4583 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: New Roof Rack for Vanagons |
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Then clicked on a link just now on another topic and lookie here!
The rust is demolishing them and see how the flat plat has bent down under the load.
So much for Smittybuilt which is actually Won Soo Chen built. |
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4583 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: New Roof Rack for Vanagons |
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SyncroHead--Funny, but this came up just now on another thread. This is the kind of upward forcing of the under gutter clamping action I was talking about.
https://www.amazon.com/Smittybilt-HDS-6-Heavy-Gutt...amp;sr=1-1
For the towers to be really secured to the gutter, it seems like something like this is needed.
If you click on the link, it says they will not fit a Vanagon. Wonder what that is about as they look OK to me.
The J shape you have on your foot is far superior to what Smittybuilt has. And the U channel bend stiffening your tower is better than just their flat plate.
Duncan |
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4583 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: New Roof Rack for Vanagons |
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Then clicked on a link just now on another topic and lookie here!
The rust is demolishing them and see how the flat plat has bent down under the load.
So much for Smittybuilt which is actually Won Soo Chen built. |
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4583 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: New Roof Rack for Vanagons |
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SyncroHead--Funny, but this came up just now on another thread. This is the kind of upward forcing of the under gutter clamping action I was talking about.
https://www.amazon.com/Smittybilt-HDS-6-Heavy-Gutt...amp;sr=1-1
For the towers to be really secured to the gutter, it seems like something like this is needed.
If you click on the link, it says they will not fit a Vanagon. Wonder what that is about as they look OK to me.
The J shape you have on your foot is far superior to what Smittybuilt has. And the U channel bend stiffening your tower is better than just their flat plate.
Duncan |
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pemz0r Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2010 Posts: 126 Location: Huntington Beach
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:32 am Post subject: Re: New Roof Rack for Vanagons |
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DuncanS wrote: |
Then clicked on a link just now on another topic and lookie here!
The rust is demolishing them and see how the flat plat has bent down under the load.
So much for Smittybuilt which is actually Won Soo Chen built. |
I just replaced all the Smittybuilt mounts but I am okay with replacing them every 3 to 4 years if they last that long... Prior to me, the car was located on the Oregon Coast so it got pummeled with salty air and from the photos the previous owner had this rack on there for 4 years. The rack its self is heavy I used a forklift to take it off to paint port15 all over it and replace the mounts. There's a 7 gallon road shower, hi lift jack, quick trax, and I added a solar panel and an awning attached to it. I would guess there's 600+ pounds up there. I will monitor the mounts since they are new and see how long they will last.
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4583 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:27 am Post subject: Re: New Roof Rack for Vanagons |
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That is one fabulous rack. The guy that did it certainly knew what he was doing. I liked the upside down pic as I had previously mentioned that as an option. Odd that the ends are beefy. They don't do any more than the crossbars. I guess I wouldn't have bothered with anything other than a standard crossbar, and instead added another tube to fill in the triangle between the curved cross bars and the lower side rail for rigidity. That would have saved some weight. Another option is to have the sides be lighter weight in material and become a true truss like an open web bar joist.
Duncan |
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jashv Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2004 Posts: 428 Location: Shepherdsville, KY
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2023 10:17 am Post subject: Re: New Roof Rack for Vanagons |
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Just found this thread, are you still making these racks @SyncroHead? |
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trihartsfield Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2010 Posts: 311 Location: Sheridan, MT
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: New Roof Rack for Vanagons |
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SyncroHead wrote: |
Interesting that you point out the fasteners as it’s one of the elements we’re still ironing out. The beta version in the pics has a mix of hardware. Some stainless with black oxide and some ferrous steel with black oxide due to the availability when assembling the rack.
The plan will be to have all the hardware stainless and at least all the visible pieces also have black oxide coating.
Jim Davis |
How many times have you been told you “have a nice rack”? _________________ 1971 Transporter-SOLD
1982 Westy Will grow up into a TDI |
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