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Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands?
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richparker
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:16 am    Post subject: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

Hey guys, it’s been a good weekend working on the ‘65. I’m getting ready to fill the transaxle and I need some direction. I understand the basic principle as this is not my first ACVW, but it is my first bug with a swing axle. I’ve read on this forum that if you fill the transaxle while on jack stands you’ll fill the axle tubes before the transaxle shows full. Is this the case? If so, what’s the trick? This car doesn’t have an engine and it won’t for a few more weeks. So, when I jack up the spring plate the car is not heavy enough to rotate the torsion bar (unlike a bus, which I’m very familiar with).

Thanks for the help
Rich P.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: Filming transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

Jack up a little more, put some blocks temporarily under the brake drums, lower until axles are pretty even, then fill.
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richparker
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: Filming transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
Jack up a little more, put some blocks temporarily under the brake drums, lower until axles are pretty even, then fill.


But the car isn’t heavy enough with out the engine to compress the spring plate. I had to compress the spring plate to install the new axle boots and I could barely get them to move. After getting the smallest gap between the plate and the stop, I banged a pry bar in there to give me a little more room so I could slide the boots in between the horns and the axle.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:15 am    Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

What I have done is jack the car up using the lower shock mount location. That should work even with engine out. Also add the scondary jack stand for safety. Then fill up the trans, lower the car move it around and recheck the transfluid.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:17 am    Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

When I do this I place a large nut- I believe it is a 25mm- between the spring plate and the stop. Do this with the car on the ground. Because you don't have an engine in, it might help to have a heavy friend sit on the rear apron to lower the car when you put the nut in.
When you jack the car up, the axles should stay about level
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

This is all the spring plate moves when jacked up from the shock mount with no engine.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

The fill hole is above the axles, so if the trans is filled to the bottom of the hole, shouldn't the axle tubes also be filled with oil no matter their position? The only issue I can see is all of the oil can't drain OUT of the tubes if the axles are hanging. But, that is not what you are asking.
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richparker
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

Q-Dog wrote:
The only issue I can see is all of the oil can't drain OUT of the tubes if the axles are hanging. But, that is not what you are asking.


That is a good question, maybe someone can answer it for us. This car does have new rear wheel bearings and new seals.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

richparker wrote:
Hey guys, it’s been a good weekend working on the ‘65. I’m getting ready to fill the transaxle and I need some direction. I understand the basic principle as this is not my first ACVW, but it is my first bug with a swing axle. I’ve read on this forum that if you fill the transaxle while on jack stands you’ll fill the axle tubes before the transaxle shows full. Is this the case? If so, what’s the trick? This car doesn’t have an engine and it won’t for a few more weeks. So, when I jack up the spring plate the car is not heavy enough to rotate the torsion bar (unlike a bus, which I’m very familiar with).

Thanks for the help

Rich P.


I had to think about it just a bit. Back when I was a kid mid to late 70s most lifts in garage were center mount with 4 legs and of the thousands of VWs I don’t recall anyone paying attention to how the axles were
hanging as it relates to filling oil in transaxle.

Many of the people were neighbors with repeat business and I also don’t recall any problems with overfilling or leaks. I do recall using a fixture while on the lift to manipulate the axle but it didn’t get much use.

Oddly enough then and now the empi swing axle boots seal better and last longer than the German replacement. I’ve owned a bunch of swing axle VWs and probably have been doing this wrong for over 40 years😀

Until the axle nuts are tightened to spec it will leak if you fill the transaxle with oil.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

richparker wrote:
I’ve read on this forum that if you fill the transaxle while on jack stands you’ll fill the axle tubes before the transaxle shows full.

And, what's wrong with that?

The bottom of the fill hole is on plane with the center of the axle tubes, so it will all equalize anyway. Any writings about that issue sound like much ado about nothing. If the concern is overfilling the transaxle, then don't top it off, and get under it later after it really needs oil and top it off. Or, open the plug and let the excess out later after it's bolted together and driven. But from the state of things, it doesn't actually need oil yet.

If you're hell-bent on leveling the axles to fill the case, buy a couple of these.

What does your builder say?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

You're overthinking the process.

Fill the transmission with the VW recommended volume of oil, put in the plug, then move on to the next job you have to do.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

viiking wrote:
You're overthinking the process.

Fill the transmission with the VW recommended volume of oil, put in the plug, then move on to the next job you have to do.


I think you are right it’s another example of overthinking just like removing plugs or rocker arms to build oil pressure on a new engine. A friend of mine ran a successful VW repair business for over 40 years but he was probably wrong too. During that time he built thousands of engines.

As time goes by I suspect it will be more prevalent, these think soes and Internet myths. My fav is I can’t drive over 60 because it stresses the engine😀 said before I’ll say it again these cars are tougher than you think. Listen to the people that worked on them when millions of them roamed the highway.

To the OP it’s not wrong to be overly cautious and it’s better to be safe than sorry. So if you have time worst case scenario you take a little more time. Enjoy your car
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richparker
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses. I can’t talk you how many times my builder has told me not listen to shit I read on the inter-web.

Here’s where I’m at with it. I can’t get the axle nuts torqued correctly while it is on jack stands. So I’m going to let it down, torque the nuts and have a heavy friend sit on the bumper while I fill the transaxle. Right or wrong, that’s how I’m gonna do it. 🤷‍♂️
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

Sounds like a plan Idea
Maybe roll it back and forth a couple times with a friend on the bumper to untuck the wheels a bit, that'll help level out the axles without the engine being in there.

By the way, if you get a "helper" tool, you'll never need a car on the ground again to make or break axle nut torque. They fit a variety of lug patterns and flywheels as well, and render the claw-style flywheel lock useless (for make/ break on flywheels anyway). I got mine in the 80's when it was called the "helper tool." Apparently it's called the "buddy bar" now. Priceless tool to have on hand.

https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Axle-Gland-Nut-Leverage-Tool-Buddy-Bar-p/buddy-bar.htm
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

I left the car on jack stands and filled up the transmission until it flowed out. Then I spun the wheels a few times to make sure it was still full. If not I added more.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

I found it best to always check and fill, the trans, with all 4 tires, on the ground - is very easy on a type 2 - cut a-hidden access for my bugs - making it super accurate and easy...

As you know, up to 6/52 VW had a rear access and with the Zwitter, eliminated it - problem (for me) was I was very accustomed to it and just continued, cutting my own - Z
split bug - stock access >
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

I like that idea😀
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

cool idea indeed. ive seen a few in person like that. extra good idea if you weld in some bracing.

or you can just to it the normal way,

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

I use a gear oil pump that screws into the container, from auto parts store.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
I use a gear oil pump that screws into the container, from auto parts store.


This is what I use as well.
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