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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6936 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:16 am Post subject: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? |
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Hey guys, it’s been a good weekend working on the ‘65. I’m getting ready to fill the transaxle and I need some direction. I understand the basic principle as this is not my first ACVW, but it is my first bug with a swing axle. I’ve read on this forum that if you fill the transaxle while on jack stands you’ll fill the axle tubes before the transaxle shows full. Is this the case? If so, what’s the trick? This car doesn’t have an engine and it won’t for a few more weeks. So, when I jack up the spring plate the car is not heavy enough to rotate the torsion bar (unlike a bus, which I’m very familiar with).
Thanks for the help
Rich P. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
Last edited by richparker on Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31271 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Filming transaxle oil while on jack stands? |
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Jack up a little more, put some blocks temporarily under the brake drums, lower until axles are pretty even, then fill. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6936 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Filming transaxle oil while on jack stands? |
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Cusser wrote: |
Jack up a little more, put some blocks temporarily under the brake drums, lower until axles are pretty even, then fill. |
But the car isn’t heavy enough with out the engine to compress the spring plate. I had to compress the spring plate to install the new axle boots and I could barely get them to move. After getting the smallest gap between the plate and the stop, I banged a pry bar in there to give me a little more room so I could slide the boots in between the horns and the axle. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build |
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gt1953 Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002 Posts: 13843 Location: White Mountains Arizona
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:15 am Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? |
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What I have done is jack the car up using the lower shock mount location. That should work even with engine out. Also add the scondary jack stand for safety. Then fill up the trans, lower the car move it around and recheck the transfluid. _________________ Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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6T5 square Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2005 Posts: 1081 Location: Dover, DE
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? |
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When I do this I place a large nut- I believe it is a 25mm- between the spring plate and the stop. Do this with the car on the ground. Because you don't have an engine in, it might help to have a heavy friend sit on the rear apron to lower the car when you put the nut in.
When you jack the car up, the axles should stay about level _________________ John
65 square 1500S (weezer) sold but always on my mind
60 beetle (Ned)
Quoting John Muir -- Open the rear boot. Get out the stool and sit down. Contemplate the air-cooled beauty before you. - How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive -- Step-By-Step Procedures for the Compleat Idiot |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6936 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? |
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This is all the spring plate moves when jacked up from the shock mount with no engine.
_________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build |
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Q-Dog Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 8689 Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? |
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The fill hole is above the axles, so if the trans is filled to the bottom of the hole, shouldn't the axle tubes also be filled with oil no matter their position? The only issue I can see is all of the oil can't drain OUT of the tubes if the axles are hanging. But, that is not what you are asking. _________________ Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6936 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? |
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Q-Dog wrote: |
The only issue I can see is all of the oil can't drain OUT of the tubes if the axles are hanging. But, that is not what you are asking. |
That is a good question, maybe someone can answer it for us. This car does have new rear wheel bearings and new seals. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12454
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? |
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richparker wrote: |
Hey guys, it’s been a good weekend working on the ‘65. I’m getting ready to fill the transaxle and I need some direction. I understand the basic principle as this is not my first ACVW, but it is my first bug with a swing axle. I’ve read on this forum that if you fill the transaxle while on jack stands you’ll fill the axle tubes before the transaxle shows full. Is this the case? If so, what’s the trick? This car doesn’t have an engine and it won’t for a few more weeks. So, when I jack up the spring plate the car is not heavy enough to rotate the torsion bar (unlike a bus, which I’m very familiar with).
Thanks for the help
Rich P. |
I had to think about it just a bit. Back when I was a kid mid to late 70s most lifts in garage were center mount with 4 legs and of the thousands of VWs I don’t recall anyone paying attention to how the axles were
hanging as it relates to filling oil in transaxle.
Many of the people were neighbors with repeat business and I also don’t recall any problems with overfilling or leaks. I do recall using a fixture while on the lift to manipulate the axle but it didn’t get much use.
Oddly enough then and now the empi swing axle boots seal better and last longer than the German replacement. I’ve owned a bunch of swing axle VWs and probably have been doing this wrong for over 40 years😀
Until the axle nuts are tightened to spec it will leak if you fill the transaxle with oil. |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3790 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? |
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richparker wrote: |
I’ve read on this forum that if you fill the transaxle while on jack stands you’ll fill the axle tubes before the transaxle shows full. |
And, what's wrong with that?
The bottom of the fill hole is on plane with the center of the axle tubes, so it will all equalize anyway. Any writings about that issue sound like much ado about nothing. If the concern is overfilling the transaxle, then don't top it off, and get under it later after it really needs oil and top it off. Or, open the plug and let the excess out later after it's bolted together and driven. But from the state of things, it doesn't actually need oil yet.
If you're hell-bent on leveling the axles to fill the case, buy a couple of these.
What does your builder say?
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viiking Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013 Posts: 2666 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? |
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You're overthinking the process.
Fill the transmission with the VW recommended volume of oil, put in the plug, then move on to the next job you have to do. _________________ 1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12454
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? |
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viiking wrote: |
You're overthinking the process.
Fill the transmission with the VW recommended volume of oil, put in the plug, then move on to the next job you have to do. |
I think you are right it’s another example of overthinking just like removing plugs or rocker arms to build oil pressure on a new engine. A friend of mine ran a successful VW repair business for over 40 years but he was probably wrong too. During that time he built thousands of engines.
As time goes by I suspect it will be more prevalent, these think soes and Internet myths. My fav is I can’t drive over 60 because it stresses the engine😀 said before I’ll say it again these cars are tougher than you think. Listen to the people that worked on them when millions of them roamed the highway.
To the OP it’s not wrong to be overly cautious and it’s better to be safe than sorry. So if you have time worst case scenario you take a little more time. Enjoy your car |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6936 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? |
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Thanks for the responses. I can’t talk you how many times my builder has told me not listen to shit I read on the inter-web.
Here’s where I’m at with it. I can’t get the axle nuts torqued correctly while it is on jack stands. So I’m going to let it down, torque the nuts and have a heavy friend sit on the bumper while I fill the transaxle. Right or wrong, that’s how I’m gonna do it. 🤷♂️ _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3790 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? |
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Sounds like a plan
Maybe roll it back and forth a couple times with a friend on the bumper to untuck the wheels a bit, that'll help level out the axles without the engine being in there.
By the way, if you get a "helper" tool, you'll never need a car on the ground again to make or break axle nut torque. They fit a variety of lug patterns and flywheels as well, and render the claw-style flywheel lock useless (for make/ break on flywheels anyway). I got mine in the 80's when it was called the "helper tool." Apparently it's called the "buddy bar" now. Priceless tool to have on hand.
https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Axle-Gland-Nut-Leverage-Tool-Buddy-Bar-p/buddy-bar.htm |
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toxicavenger70 Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2019 Posts: 869 Location: CO
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? |
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I left the car on jack stands and filled up the transmission until it flowed out. Then I spun the wheels a few times to make sure it was still full. If not I added more. |
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ZENVWDRIVER Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2008 Posts: 3340 Location: N.E. Oklahoma
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? |
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I found it best to always check and fill, the trans, with all 4 tires, on the ground - is very easy on a type 2 - cut a-hidden access for my bugs - making it super accurate and easy...
As you know, up to 6/52 VW had a rear access and with the Zwitter, eliminated it - problem (for me) was I was very accustomed to it and just continued, cutting my own - Z
split bug - stock access >
_________________ 5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON
All super-heroes, wear a MASK |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12454
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? |
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I like that idea😀 |
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? |
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cool idea indeed. ive seen a few in person like that. extra good idea if you weld in some bracing.
or you can just to it the normal way,
_________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31271 Location: Hot Arizona
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6936 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Filling transaxle oil while on jack stands? |
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Cusser wrote: |
I use a gear oil pump that screws into the container, from auto parts store. |
This is what I use as well. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build |
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