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Are all 1600s the same?
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AhnwS71
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:27 pm    Post subject: Are all 1600s the same? Reply with quote

Would an engine case with AK be ok for a '71 bus? I found the engine code AK is from a '73 bug.
according to The Samba:
AE 1971 1600cc 50bhp DIN, 60HP SAE-gross. USA-only
AK 1973 1600cc 48bhp DIN, 46HP SAE-net. USA-only

If i use the carb, fuel pump, and distributor from a '71, does this make it a 60hp?
thank you for your info.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all 1600s the same? Reply with quote

There's not a whole lot of difference, there may have been slight differences in piston domes, the big issue is are there mounting holes for the mustache bar?, some AK's have the bosses but aren't drilled.
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AhnwS71
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all 1600s the same? Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
There's not a whole lot of difference, there may have been slight differences in piston domes, the big issue is are there mounting holes for the mustache bar?, some AK's have the bosses but aren't drilled.

read another forum that there is an adapter kit :https://www.busdepot.com/0091480
still have to drill with this?
would there be a big difference in HP by using an AK case with all the '71 fixings?
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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all 1600s the same? Reply with quote

AhnwS71 wrote:
Would an engine case with AK be ok for a '71 bus? I found the engine code AK is from a '73 bug.
according to The Samba:
AE 1971 1600cc 50bhp DIN, 60HP SAE-gross. USA-only
AK 1973 1600cc 48bhp DIN, 46HP SAE-net. USA-only

If i use the carb, fuel pump, and distributor from a '71, does this make it a 60hp?
thank you for your info.


Yep, it will be a 60 HP gross
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all 1600s the same? Reply with quote

The adaptor works OK if you install it properly, if the case has the bosses there's nowhere to put nuts on the front sides of the adaptors ears since they are right up against the case.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=463315&highlight=moustache

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=561080&highlight=drill+case
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all 1600s the same? Reply with quote

why not look for either a good AE case or a universal one that has already been drilled for a bus? You can sell the AK case to offset it.
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vwwestyman
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all 1600s the same? Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
AhnwS71 wrote:
Would an engine case with AK be ok for a '71 bus? I found the engine code AK is from a '73 bug.
according to The Samba:
AE 1971 1600cc 50bhp DIN, 60HP SAE-gross. USA-only
AK 1973 1600cc 48bhp DIN, 46HP SAE-net. USA-only

If i use the carb, fuel pump, and distributor from a '71, does this make it a 60hp?
thank you for your info.


Yep, it will be a 60 HP gross


Yeah, note that the measurement is different. One is gross and other is net. The 60 and 48 aren't apples to apples way of measuring the HP.
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all 1600s the same? Reply with quote

vwwestyman wrote:
Abscate wrote:
AhnwS71 wrote:
Would an engine case with AK be ok for a '71 bus? I found the engine code AK is from a '73 bug.
according to The Samba:
AE 1971 1600cc 50bhp DIN, 60HP SAE-gross. USA-only
AK 1973 1600cc 48bhp DIN, 46HP SAE-net. USA-only

If i use the carb, fuel pump, and distributor from a '71, does this make it a 60hp?
thank you for your info.


Yep, it will be a 60 HP gross


Yeah, note that the measurement is different. One is gross and other is net. The 60 and 48 aren't apples to apples way of measuring the HP.

As I recall from that era, lots of consumer protection laws changed in the USA in the early 70's on how performance was rated. Many industries were affected. As an example. audio gear power had been reported from an industry standard to overtime whatever the engineers predicted before efficiency loss. Receivers that were 100 watts when measured were being advertised way above that. A car's performance was being reported with HP outputs that were a perfect world dyno setting tweaked by a racing buff instead of real outputs of mass produced factory engines. Hence the difference between gross HP in 1971 to net HP in 1973. You'll notice the same "net" type reporting in this 1977 manual,but with a specific RPM.

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Last edited by SGKent on Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:19 pm; edited 4 times in total
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richparker
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all 1600s the same? Reply with quote

AhnwS71 wrote:


If i use the carb, fuel pump, and distributor from a '71, does this make it a 60hp?
thank you for your info.


60hp with a 1600? You’d have to spec it out to get close to that. Maybe 9:1 compression, a w90 cam, dual IDF40s and a nice set of heads might get you close. But for that price, I’d build a stroker. Once you start pricing high end T1 parts you’ll find that prices on some items are the same. Like a 69mm and a 78mm stroke crank basically cost the same. It’s that way with a lot of the parts. I’d recommend finding a builder and making a plan with that person.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all 1600s the same? Reply with quote

The compression dropped slightly over that period, from 7.5:1 to 7.3:1

If the engines have been rebuilt over their lives then all bets are off as for as HP.
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rsbadura
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:19 am    Post subject: Re: Are all 1600s the same? Reply with quote

richparker wrote:
60hp with a 1600?

This are old SAE gross power (J245 and J1995) - without generator, exhaust, ...
Typical 10-15% more than European/German DIN 70020 standard hp with complete engine conditions.
At the end these 60 are only 50 real hp. Wink

Since ~ 1972 the following SAE net horsepower is nearly the DIN standard, but use a calculation value, that create sometimes different values in DIN or SAE net.

regards,
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