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AhnwS71 Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2018 Posts: 215 Location: Huntsville, AL
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:27 pm Post subject: Are all 1600s the same? |
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Would an engine case with AK be ok for a '71 bus? I found the engine code AK is from a '73 bug.
according to The Samba:
AE 1971 1600cc 50bhp DIN, 60HP SAE-gross. USA-only
AK 1973 1600cc 48bhp DIN, 46HP SAE-net. USA-only
If i use the carb, fuel pump, and distributor from a '71, does this make it a 60hp?
thank you for your info. _________________ '71 Westy
Sometimes you eat the bar, and sometimes the bar eats you. the Stranger |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Are all 1600s the same? |
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There's not a whole lot of difference, there may have been slight differences in piston domes, the big issue is are there mounting holes for the mustache bar?, some AK's have the bosses but aren't drilled. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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AhnwS71 Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2018 Posts: 215 Location: Huntsville, AL
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Are all 1600s the same? |
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busdaddy wrote: |
There's not a whole lot of difference, there may have been slight differences in piston domes, the big issue is are there mounting holes for the mustache bar?, some AK's have the bosses but aren't drilled. |
read another forum that there is an adapter kit :https://www.busdepot.com/0091480
still have to drill with this?
would there be a big difference in HP by using an AK case with all the '71 fixings? _________________ '71 Westy
Sometimes you eat the bar, and sometimes the bar eats you. the Stranger |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Are all 1600s the same? |
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AhnwS71 wrote: |
Would an engine case with AK be ok for a '71 bus? I found the engine code AK is from a '73 bug.
according to The Samba:
AE 1971 1600cc 50bhp DIN, 60HP SAE-gross. USA-only
AK 1973 1600cc 48bhp DIN, 46HP SAE-net. USA-only
If i use the carb, fuel pump, and distributor from a '71, does this make it a 60hp?
thank you for your info. |
Yep, it will be a 60 HP gross _________________ .ssS! |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Are all 1600s the same? |
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why not look for either a good AE case or a universal one that has already been drilled for a bus? You can sell the AK case to offset it. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5680 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Are all 1600s the same? |
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Abscate wrote: |
AhnwS71 wrote: |
Would an engine case with AK be ok for a '71 bus? I found the engine code AK is from a '73 bug.
according to The Samba:
AE 1971 1600cc 50bhp DIN, 60HP SAE-gross. USA-only
AK 1973 1600cc 48bhp DIN, 46HP SAE-net. USA-only
If i use the carb, fuel pump, and distributor from a '71, does this make it a 60hp?
thank you for your info. |
Yep, it will be a 60 HP gross |
Yeah, note that the measurement is different. One is gross and other is net. The 60 and 48 aren't apples to apples way of measuring the HP. _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Are all 1600s the same? |
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vwwestyman wrote: |
Abscate wrote: |
AhnwS71 wrote: |
Would an engine case with AK be ok for a '71 bus? I found the engine code AK is from a '73 bug.
according to The Samba:
AE 1971 1600cc 50bhp DIN, 60HP SAE-gross. USA-only
AK 1973 1600cc 48bhp DIN, 46HP SAE-net. USA-only
If i use the carb, fuel pump, and distributor from a '71, does this make it a 60hp?
thank you for your info. |
Yep, it will be a 60 HP gross |
Yeah, note that the measurement is different. One is gross and other is net. The 60 and 48 aren't apples to apples way of measuring the HP. |
As I recall from that era, lots of consumer protection laws changed in the USA in the early 70's on how performance was rated. Many industries were affected. As an example. audio gear power had been reported from an industry standard to overtime whatever the engineers predicted before efficiency loss. Receivers that were 100 watts when measured were being advertised way above that. A car's performance was being reported with HP outputs that were a perfect world dyno setting tweaked by a racing buff instead of real outputs of mass produced factory engines. Hence the difference between gross HP in 1971 to net HP in 1973. You'll notice the same "net" type reporting in this 1977 manual,but with a specific RPM.
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin
Last edited by SGKent on Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:19 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6935 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: Are all 1600s the same? |
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AhnwS71 wrote: |
If i use the carb, fuel pump, and distributor from a '71, does this make it a 60hp?
thank you for your info. |
60hp with a 1600? You’d have to spec it out to get close to that. Maybe 9:1 compression, a w90 cam, dual IDF40s and a nice set of heads might get you close. But for that price, I’d build a stroker. Once you start pricing high end T1 parts you’ll find that prices on some items are the same. Like a 69mm and a 78mm stroke crank basically cost the same. It’s that way with a lot of the parts. I’d recommend finding a builder and making a plan with that person. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50255
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Are all 1600s the same? |
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The compression dropped slightly over that period, from 7.5:1 to 7.3:1
If the engines have been rebuilt over their lives then all bets are off as for as HP. |
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rsbadura Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2009 Posts: 648 Location: Berlin, Germany
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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:19 am Post subject: Re: Are all 1600s the same? |
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richparker wrote: |
60hp with a 1600? |
This are old SAE gross power (J245 and J1995) - without generator, exhaust, ...
Typical 10-15% more than European/German DIN 70020 standard hp with complete engine conditions.
At the end these 60 are only 50 real hp.
Since ~ 1972 the following SAE net horsepower is nearly the DIN standard, but use a calculation value, that create sometimes different values in DIN or SAE net.
regards, _________________ Rolf-Stephan Badura
1970 VW Karmann-Ghia Coupe
1979 VW Bus L to camper conversion
1982 Eriba Pan travel trailer
2017 VW CrossPolo
HAZET classic tools |
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