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New super white paint that cools.
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Corwyn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

Robw_z wrote:
Emissivity and absorbance are radiative means of heat transfer. This paint resists radiative heat transfer but not convective.

So since humid air is more convective, this paint will work best where/when humidity is low.

-Rob


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:55 pm    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:

Who remembers black lines in Florida?


Sorry, what?! I had to re-read the sentence a few times. What colour was the road?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:37 am    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:29 am    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

So they are claiming that this new paint acts in a manner very similar to a swamp coolers operation in dry regions ...... only without the water.

And also like a swamp cooler does in a humid climate as well..... it doesn't.
Or does, but poorly.

Forgive me, I'm kinda playing devil's advocate here but sometimes new technology just isn't as it appears.
Think solid state refrigeration...... it works...... kind of.

To effectively use this non moisture based evaporative heat sink paint to cool a home would mean a total redesign in how houses are built.
If you want to suck the heat out of a house with this paint, the living space air will need to be right up against the underside of this paint.
Except for an old shack, you won't find a house built like this nor will building codes allow it today.
Most Everyone of us is living with insulation between our ceiling and our roof.
All that insulation needs to go away, but what will we do in the winter?
Repaint with the miracle heat absorbing black paint?

Just color me skeptical for a practical application cooling living space in lieu of using an Air Conditioner.
Reflecting roof heat? Yes!
Cooling living space? Not anytime soon.

Dave
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:45 am    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

From ZsZ's link.

"Opaque objects that specularly reflect light of different wavelengths with different efficiencies look like mirrors tinted with colors determined by those differences."

I'm going with a polished Sterling silver roof.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:34 am    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

I'm going with bare metal polished to a mirror finish.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:00 am    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

I’ve consulted to the IP group on the reflective paint. It’s not just white paint
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
So they are claiming that this new paint acts in a manner very similar to a swamp coolers operation in dry regions ...... only without the water.
Dave

No, Dave, they aren't "claiming" that the new white absorbs less heat, they have proven scientifically that it rejects more heat than white.

Please read:
https://www.insidescience.org/news/scientists-invent-whitest-white-paint
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
I’ve consulted to the IP group on the reflective paint. It’s not just white paint
Interesting.... Cool
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

Argue, argue, argue. How many dollars per degree of temp saved over Tractor Supply farm white?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

I've been trying to stay out of this discussion but I want to add some input. I'm a mechanical engineer that designs cooling systems for large commercial buildings. As in any endeavor, it's easy to get to 90% efficient for whatever type of system you're designing. To get to 95% is twice the effort. To get to 98% is four times the effort.

This paint is not meant to take the place of mechanical cooling or be placed on the roof of a van. It is meant for large applications on buildings of hundreds of thousands of square feet where a 3% reduction in cooling load means a six figure reduction in capitol cost and tens of thousands of dollars in energy cost.

Mis-applying the application and then arguing about it makes no sense. It is an advance in technology that is noteworthy in the right application.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

Tnx,PDX. A sound and sane post.

I use the same analysis on getting a boat to look good. A crappy boat will look good at 200'. Going to 100' is easy with some paint applied with a broom--one hour. Going to 50' needs stripping off the broom job and going with a roller--6 hours. Going to 25' is the above, but now the varnish and so on need total restoration. 100 hours. Going to 15'--I did it trust me--a thousand hours. Below 2' many years of work. I started with a 100 footer and 28 years later she was a 2 footer.

It all depends on what you want. If bragging rights, go for it as the economics don't make sense at our scale.

Duncan
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:08 pm    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

PDXWesty wrote:
I've been trying to stay out of this discussion but I want to add some input. I'm a mechanical engineer that designs cooling systems for large commercial buildings. As in any endeavor, it's easy to get to 90% efficient for whatever type of system you're designing. To get to 95% is twice the effort. To get to 98% is four times the effort.

This paint is not meant to take the place of mechanical cooling or be placed on the roof of a van. It is meant for large applications on buildings of hundreds of thousands of square feet where a 3% reduction in cooling load means a six figure reduction in capitol cost and tens of thousands of dollars in energy cost.

Mis-applying the application and then arguing about it makes no sense. It is an advance in technology that is noteworthy in the right application.


Oh, I totally agree with you and that's my point.
Reduce solar gain by reflecting the heat. Keep the attic cool.

Ah, but They are claiming it absorbs heat from the area it is applied to and sends that heat away making the entire area around it cooler than ambient temperature.
The are claiming it will act as an air conditioning.
If it can passively absorb heat and send it away, it will be an amazing product but will never work as an air conditioning without major redesign of buildings basically eliminating attic insulation or hot roof insulation technology.

Dave
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:38 pm    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

Here in Miami a white car is way cooler than a black car. The difference is 30 to 40 degrees at least. I tested our cars with my heat gun. Whites are even different. I have a white jeep and a white Fleetwood Cadillac. The Cadillac white is cooler even though to the eye the Jeep looks whiter. My brown/tan Vanagon, the Brown is really hot, burns the hand when trying to close the hatch.

For the pop top you could try what Land Rover used, a tropical roof. It is a double layer roof. Put a roof rack or bars on your pop top then put a sheet of white Star board or marine board on the roof rack. You now have a double layer roof with an air space underneath. Of course this may cause a problem going into your garage. Yes, I did own 2 Land Rovers back in the early 1970's. One had a tropical roof. Just another thought on how to beat the heat.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

For less than $25 you can paint your Westy roof white.
It lowers temps by reflecting most of the light energy.
This is why most aircraft are painted white.

White paint helps, however the sunlight beating
down on the top will pass conductive heat to the inside.

A cargo box and a small kayak
on the roof will provide shade,
and further reduction in heat conduction.

The early Land Rover expedition vehicles
had a roof shade - very cool!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:51 pm    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

Jake de Villiers wrote:
djkeev wrote:
So they are claiming that this new paint acts in a manner very similar to a swamp coolers operation in dry regions ...... only without the water.
Dave

No, Dave, they aren't "claiming" that the new white absorbs less heat, they have proven scientifically that it rejects more heat than white.

Please read:
https://www.insidescience.org/news/scientists-invent-whitest-white-paint


Read the entire article...... the photo with in infrared, the caption says in essence the white square (dark purple) is cooling the bigger board (lighter purple) it is applied to.
If that small square isn't absorbing heat, how is the big board becoming cool?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

I imagine this product is similar in function to the "cool pavement" that's undergoing experimentation here in Phoenix: https://ktar.com/story/4686329/city-of-phoenix-sha...ent-study/ .

Is the new paint worth the cost on a steel box that doesn't have much insulation and, in many cases, doesn't have tinted windows? Remains to be seen, but I, personally, would err on the side of "no".

When my dark blue pop-top is repainted, the very top is going to be plain white, which, by itself, will make a big difference. Right now, when the sun hits it in the early morning, the "loft" begins turning into an oven.🥵 And there’s a big reason why my black Jetta was traded for a white GTI after 17 years of ownership... the white hatchback is cooler to begin with, and the A/C doesn't have to work nearly as hard to cool the interior down.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:46 am    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

"This paint is so white, it called the cops on all the other paints."

"This paint is so white, it called the cops Sir."
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:35 am    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

wesitarz wrote:
"This paint is so white, it called the cops on all the other paints."

"This paint is so white, it called the cops Sir."
So you watched that bit on the paint too.... Laughing Laughing Colbert had some fun with it...
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: New super white paint that cools. Reply with quote

I went with a totally clear paint so you can't even see the roof.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'll bet I have one of the few T3s where the interior and exterior temps are the same.
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