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ty151 Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2018 Posts: 165 Location: California
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:28 am Post subject: 63 engine questions |
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Alright everyone, got myself a pretty original 63 sedan last weekend (aside from the engine), hence why I’m posting here. I will start a build thread soon showing all the car but I wanted to post to get some questions answered about the engine and getting things back to original, or close to it.
The battery is 6v, but appears the carb has 12v electronic choke and has new distributor and fuel pump. Can you guys school me on what let’s needs to be changed out to get this thing back to original 6v? I’ve noticed that when I use the turn signals or turn on the headlights, the engine kinda surges and I assume that’s the mix of 6v and 12v.
Car has the solex h30/31 pict carb and a pertronix flamethrower distributor.
I have the original Bosch zv/pau 4 r 5 big cap distributor, just don’t know it’s current operational condition.
In short, can you guys point out what needs to be replaced to get this thing back to original configuration? Or close to it. Thanks!
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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:37 am Post subject: Re: 63 engine questions |
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I would just get points and a 6v heater for the coil. IDK if they made the electronic points for 6v or not. If that was a 12v electric points, I doubt it would work on 6v. I don't like those anyway because they left me stranded twice. I'm just fine running points.
Even better would be to get the proper carb and distributor on there.
What are the markings on the generator? It should have a 7V mark on it. |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26297 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:10 am Post subject: Re: 63 engine questions |
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First of all, it's electric choke. Electronic implies "logic" and that sort of thing , and this is just a heating element, it's not a "smart choke" . As for the idle cutoff solenoid, it needs 12V to operate reliably, but can be permanently disabled by chomping off and removing the plunger with some diagonal pliers.
40HP engines like this usually run fine with a centrifugal distributor. I'm not much of a fan of the bastard-child H30/31PICT but it should work OK in this application. _________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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ty151 Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2018 Posts: 165 Location: California
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:15 am Post subject: Re: 63 engine questions |
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Pruneman99 wrote: |
I would just get points and a 6v heater for the coil. IDK if they made the electronic points for 6v or not. If that was a 12v electric points, I doubt it would work on 6v. I don't like those anyway because they left me stranded twice. I'm just fine running points.
Even better would be to get the proper carb and distributor on there.
What are the markings on the generator? It should have a 7V mark on it. |
That’s my ultimate goal is to locate a 28 or 30 pict carb and get the Bosch zv/pau 4 r 5 distributor back on the car. |
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ty151 Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2018 Posts: 165 Location: California
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:17 am Post subject: Re: 63 engine questions |
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glutamodo wrote: |
First of all, it's electric choke. Electronic implies "logic" and that sort of thing , and this is just a heating element, it's not a "smart choke" . As for the idle cutoff solenoid, it needs 12V to operate reliably, but can be permanently disabled by chomping off and removing the plunger with some diagonal pliers.
40HP engines like this usually run fine with a centrifugal distributor. I'm not much of a fan of the bastard-child H30/31PICT but it should work OK in this application. |
Copy, electric choke.
I’ve only had the car on a few trips so far and it seems to run okay. I would just like to get back to more of the original set up.
What are the benefits to changing out some of the parts to 12v like the PO did in this case? |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26297 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:54 am Post subject: Re: 63 engine questions |
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Running a 12V choke heating element on 6V may still work, but it might not fully heat up and take a very long time to do so.
I'm pretty sure the H30/31PICT only comes with 12V components. So it wasn't a choice. If you see one sold equipped otherwise, it's been modified by the seller.
I do run a 28PICT on my big bore 40HP. Not sure how many miles, but out of the 300K I've put on the car, many of them were either that carb or a BOCAR 30PICT-1, (which was probably the best of the aftermarket 30 series carbs that have been produced over the years.) and largely with a ZVPAU4R5 distributor. _________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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ty151 Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2018 Posts: 165 Location: California
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:00 am Post subject: Re: 63 engine questions |
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Sounds good. I will try to get my hands on a 28 pict carb and either get my current zvpau4r5 distributor rebuilt or buy a restored one.
From what you can see in the photos, what else would need to be changed out if I went with the zvpau4r5 distributor and 28 pict carb? |
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matthew henricks Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2002 Posts: 1212 Location: So. Cal
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:10 am Post subject: Re: 63 engine questions |
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How exact do you want to get? There is a deep rabbit hole you can go down if you want it to look correct. The major ones you have covered. (Carb, dizzy & fuel pump)
- Label on air cleaner
- Carb return spring for 28PICT
- Oil bath breather hose & seal for same on apron
- Rubber boots & clamps on fresh air risers
- Voltage regulator color
- Coil size, color and date code
- Ignition wire color
- Not sure the generator belt would have had serrations.
- Engine case number.
- Lower pulley cover
- Oil pressure switch
Anyways... I am in pursuit of the same on my 64 and it is an ever expanding rabbit hole that at some point you just say enough is enough.
Hope this helped. Looking forward to seeing more images of the car. _________________ 1964 Original Owner build Thread. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=702135&highlight=
Ambulance Fan's. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=627707&highlight=
Parts i am looking for:
64 Cardboard glove box
64 bug nice used front/rear Black RHD floor mat. |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26297 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:24 am Post subject: Re: 63 engine questions |
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Well, the throttle cable return spring for a 28PICT looks like this:
_________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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ty151 Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2018 Posts: 165 Location: California
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:18 am Post subject: Re: 63 engine questions |
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matthew henricks wrote: |
How exact do you want to get? There is a deep rabbit hole you can go down if you want it to look correct. The major ones you have covered. (Carb, dizzy & fuel pump)
- Label on air cleaner
- Carb return spring for 28PICT
- Oil bath breather hose & seal for same on apron
- Rubber boots & clamps on fresh air risers
- Voltage regulator color
- Coil size, color and date code
- Ignition wire color
- Not sure the generator belt would have had serrations.
- Engine case number.
- Lower pulley cover
- Oil pressure switch
Anyways... I am in pursuit of the same on my 64 and it is an ever expanding rabbit hole that at some point you just say enough is enough.
Hope this helped. Looking forward to seeing more images of the car. |
Awesome, thanks! I’m not sure how far down that rabbit hole I want to go but I’d like to be pretty close to how it was from the factory. Do you happen to have a good reference photo of an original set up so I have something to go off of?
Thanks for that list, it helps a bunch!
Here’s a couple quick pics. I’ll be starting a thread dedicated to the car so there will be more pics and documentation there
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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:01 am Post subject: Re: 63 engine questions |
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ty151 wrote: |
Sounds good. I will try to get my hands on a 28 pict carb and either get my current zvpau4r5 distributor rebuilt or buy a restored one.
From what you can see in the photos, what else would need to be changed out if I went with the zvpau4r5 distributor and 28 pict carb? |
The 4r5 distributors are very easy to rebuild. You just need the phenolic washers, and the felt that goes inside the shaft. The shims are usually ok, but can also be replaced if worn. Check out VWNOS.com. Glenn also sent me some shims once, he may be able to send you some if you need them for a few bucks. |
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matthew henricks Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2002 Posts: 1212 Location: So. Cal
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ty151 Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2018 Posts: 165 Location: California
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: 63 engine questions |
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Looks good. I’d love mine to look even close to that. Just made some orders on WW.
Looking at a used Solex 28 pict carbs and original fuel pumps. Going to rebuild my distributor. |
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matthew henricks Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2002 Posts: 1212 Location: So. Cal
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: 63 engine questions |
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28PICT is easy to rebuild but make sure the butterfly shaft is not worn out.
When worn it becomes an air leak which will play havoc on your performance and fuel economy. They can be re-bushed though so if you get a sloppy one there is a way out.
Pierburg fuel pumps are also easy to rebuild but buy a quality rebuild kit. Most of the FLAP's use cheap diaphragms. Typically either the swedge fails or the shaft is not the right length giving you the wrong fuel pressure. VWNOS.com has good kits. (No affiliation) _________________ 1964 Original Owner build Thread. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=702135&highlight=
Ambulance Fan's. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=627707&highlight=
Parts i am looking for:
64 Cardboard glove box
64 bug nice used front/rear Black RHD floor mat. |
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ty151 Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2018 Posts: 165 Location: California
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: 63 engine questions |
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Found myself a 28 pict carb and original fuel pump in the classifieds.
Getting a rebuild kit for both off WW. For the fuel pump, WW offers a slip style and screw style rebuild kit. Anyone know which one I need? Fuel pump I bought is an original part.
Also, for my distributor, I have the ZV/PAU 4 R 5, but I’m missing the cap. I’m looking through the classifieds but I want to make sure I get the correct one. I’m also missing one clip so I may buy one for parts and take what I need from it |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69733 Location: Phoenix Metro
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ty151 Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2018 Posts: 165 Location: California
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26297 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: 63 engine questions |
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Not exactly sure what "slip" is supposed to mean. I guess a pipe inlet instead of a screw fitting there. Regardless, the images in your link have the screw style inlets... so in addition to the matching rebuild kit, you will need a screw-on inlet pipe! _________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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ty151 Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2018 Posts: 165 Location: California
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: 63 engine questions |
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glutamodo wrote: |
Not exactly sure what "slip" is supposed to mean. I guess a pipe inlet instead of a screw fitting there. Regardless, the images in your link have the screw style inlets... so in addition to the matching rebuild kit, you will need a screw-on inlet pipe! |
Not sure either, but that is WW is calling it. I will order the screw type and the inlet pipe |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69733 Location: Phoenix Metro
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