Which Subaru Engine is best for swaps in a 73 Westy |
EJ25 |
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90% |
[ 10 ] |
EJ22 |
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9% |
[ 1 ] |
EJ20 |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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Total Votes : 11 |
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Musicman811 Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2021 Posts: 31 Location: TEXAS
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:36 am Post subject: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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Which Subaru engines have y'all used to swap your buses/bugs? I have a 73 Westy and I hear that IF you want to make that swap it is best to use an EJ20? Do y'all have a preference of Outback? Legacy? Forester? Other?
Let me know what y'all think.
Thanks!
Update: I have the EJ25 along with the ECU and Wire Harness - Should I find a Subaru fuse box or should I find a 73 westy fuse box? and what is the name of the wires that run from the ECU to the engine? I cannot think if . . . maybe it doesn't exist . . .
Last edited by Musicman811 on Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ImAddicted Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2012 Posts: 1195 Location: Unorganized Territory, Maine
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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Search under user skills@eurocarsplus, he does a frankenmotor that might be the best option. _________________ 1979 Transporter (sold)
KC1MUR
strfish7 wrote: |
Original condition, which means something different on this forum than anywhere else! |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16879 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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the 2.2 is long in the tooth at this point and honestly, a bit more complex with the water controlled (and expensive) IAC
yes, i did a frankenmotor and although it pulls like a billy goat on meth i don't know i would do it again using the 2.2 management. plus it requires head work and custom head gaskets
any 2.5 will be fine. if you're greedy a 2.5 with a set of cams makes for s pretty fun setup as well.
any 2.5 from 99 on will be fine. 04/05 was a switch to drive by wire which complicates things a bit. personally i like the drive by cable for the swaps _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Vee Dub Nut Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2004 Posts: 1184 Location: Dallas, GA
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
the 2.2 is long in the tooth at this point and honestly, a bit more complex with the water controlled (and expensive) IAC
yes, i did a frankenmotor and although it pulls like a billy goat on meth i don't know i would do it again using the 2.2 management. plus it requires head work and custom head gaskets
any 2.5 will be fine. if you're greedy a 2.5 with a set of cams makes for s pretty fun setup as well.
any 2.5 from 99 on will be fine. 04/05 was a switch to drive by wire which complicates things a bit. personally i like the drive by cable for the swaps |
^This 100%
My donor was a 99 Forester, so its a SOHC EJ25. I did a new shortblock from the dealer, rebuilt heads, new cam, new water pump, new timing set, etc all factory parts, and I've got essentially a brand new factory EJ25. I'm at almost 3 years in now, >12k miles, zero issues. Routines oil changes only. _________________ Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2006
67 Beetle (TBD)
74 Transporter (EJ25 Swapped) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
See all my VW pics on Instagram @ vee_dub_nut |
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vacca_rabite Samba Member
Joined: July 04, 2021 Posts: 72 Location: PA
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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I've driven a ton of these engines.
The 2.2 would struggle to move an Outback Sport up hill with the AC on sometimes. Putting it in a bus would be better but you really want the 2.5.
With the 2.5 you need to be wary of engine temps as the headgaskets can fail faster then the 2.2. But the extra 30odd HP and torque more then make up for this.
Zach _________________ 1972 T2 Bay Westy in restoration
1976 Porsche 914
196? Empi Sportster Dune Buggy |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12856 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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Vee Dub Nut wrote: |
I'm at almost 3 years in now, >12k miles, zero issues. |
At only 4,000 miles a year, it hardly seems worthy of a swap, much less bragging about its dependability. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16879 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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ok, between all the swap i have done over the years collectively all of them have 210K miles and counting (post conversion)
only failures
1) water pump started to leak
1) coolant level sender got flaky
2 engines were used. one with 150+/-k on it before the swap and one had 199k on it.
the one with 199k on it was for a customer i had serviced the T4 for about 6 years prior to the swap. we went into it knowing the engine will go pop at some point.
that bus has been to 20 states now and they literally drive it like it's a taxi.
other than the above mentioned, it's all been gas and oil changes. nothing else _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12856 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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Trust me, I’m not shitting on the idea of a swap, or even the choice of donor, it was just that 4,000 miles a year was not a great testament of long term performance. That engine hasn’t really hasn’t even been broken in yet. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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cmonSTART Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2014 Posts: 1915 Location: NH
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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I'm going to piggyback on this thread post with another question:
Does it matter whether the donor is a auto or manual? _________________ '78 Bus 2.0FI
de K1IGS |
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panel Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2001 Posts: 1091 Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
any 2.5 will be fine. if you're greedy a 2.5 with a set of cams makes for s pretty fun setup as well.
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Does the ECU care that there is a set of different cams in there etc ? _________________ My '65-Subaru EJ20 Turbo conversion |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15144 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:35 am Post subject: Re: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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where da hell did ya hear the 2.0 was the one to go... _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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geristauffer Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2010 Posts: 32 Location: south central, PA
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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I can't speak for the 2.2, but the 2.5 is awesome. Only issue i have is not enough time off of work to go camping. |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16879 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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cmonSTART wrote: |
I'm going to piggyback on this thread post with another question:
Does it matter whether the donor is a auto or manual? |
no. the ECU is unisex. just need to ground the A/T M/T pin on the ecu
panel wrote: |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
any 2.5 will be fine. if you're greedy a 2.5 with a set of cams makes for s pretty fun setup as well.
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Does the ECU care that there is a set of different cams in there etc ? |
if you get too wild, it might.
geristauffer wrote: |
I can't speak for the 2.2, but the 2.5 is awesome. Only issue i have is not enough time off of work to go camping. |
^^^^ that is what it's all about. blow off work and just go. no farting around. gas up, pack it full and roll out _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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blue72beetle Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2008 Posts: 846 Location: Fort Wayne, IN
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
no. the ECU is unisex. just need to ground the A/T M/T pin on the ecu
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I thought I saw somewhere that there's a timing chain guide on one or the other that could potentially jump timing if you don't have it. _________________ -Andy-
-1970 Ghia-
-1971 Bus 1776 Microsquirt EFI- |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16879 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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manual transmission cars had the hoop for the timing belt. automatics did not.
that has nothing to do with the ECU _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Oil Phil-M Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2005 Posts: 541 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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Quote: |
Does it matter whether the donor is a auto or manual? |
If you can get the last 8 digits of the VIN number of the donor vehicle it will help you in the future. Subaru has so many mid year production changes the first question the dealer asks you is for the VIN.
The only swap I have ever done is a '02 2.5 in place if a '00 2.5 in my Outback after the supposed "rebuilt" motor snapped its timing belt. Both vehicles identical down to the colour yet its amazing the amount of the differences in the throttle body, injectors, intake and exhaust monitoring, crank and cam sensors and of course the engine wiring harnesses. For some years like 2000 there was a difference in all of those thinks between AT and MT. By 2002 the differences seem to disappear. Knowing what vehicle it came out of will save you a bunch of grief getting parts or future repairs.
Also MT engines have a critical timing belt feature that the AT engines dont have. Its a curved retainer plate located atop the crank pulley that is set up with around mm clearance from the belt to prevent it from skipping off the crank cog if the engine was to rotate backwards. Something that can happen with a MT but not an AT. If you are mating your motor to an MT you will need to ensure the retainer is there. |
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blue72beetle Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2008 Posts: 846 Location: Fort Wayne, IN
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
manual transmission cars had the hoop for the timing belt. automatics did not.
that has nothing to do with the ECU |
He didn't ask about the ECU. _________________ -Andy-
-1970 Ghia-
-1971 Bus 1776 Microsquirt EFI- |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16879 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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blue72beetle wrote: |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
manual transmission cars had the hoop for the timing belt. automatics did not.
that has nothing to do with the ECU |
He didn't ask about the ECU. |
ok, got me
the ecu or the engine doesn't care if it's a MT or AT donor. the only difference is the ECU pin for AT or MT. the block/crank etc is all the same. you should add the timing belt hoop for use in a MT swap if the donor was a AT
the only difference is the pin on the ecu.
i thought my answer of no it doesn't matter laying out the only real difference was a good enough explanation.
evidently my efforts have been thwarted. drats _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6982 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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TDCTDI wrote: |
Vee Dub Nut wrote: |
I'm at almost 3 years in now, >12k miles, zero issues. |
At only 4,000 miles a year, it hardly seems worthy of a swap, much less bragging about its dependability. |
Oooh, a jab at Skills favorite bus on the samba… _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16879 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: Which Subaru to Swap? Opinions |
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there is something about that bus that makes me moister than an oyster and i'm not really a late bay guy _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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