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Neil's 52 Zwitter
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Jimone
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

just finished reading through this thread. very impressive workmanship and attention to detail.

i recently acquired a november 52 zwitter. its been a pretty fun toy so far. threads like yours make me itch to get back out into the garage.

looking forward to more updates! congrats on your growing family!
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geneL3c Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Neil, Looking at your deck lid, I'm not sure it's actually for a Split since I don't know what the correct license light should be. I'm in the same predicament with the deck lid for my '50 Standard with both rust and collision damage on the lower half, but I think it could be saved by using another W deck lid to replace the lower section which is unusable and avoid a lot of man hours to hammer out and repair rust. I have no doubt you could make it look perfect, but man, what an uphill battle !
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Thanks for bumping my thread back to the top; unfortunately not much progress to report. Baby requires much attention.

Fiat still not running. Flat repair on 77 f100 turned into complete rear brake job. Also did some paint recovery per patina thread guidelines on that thing per advice in the OG paint and patina thread. Sorta decided the Ford truck is a keeper so gearing up for a winter time trans rebuild on it. Still driving it but it’s starting to grind pretty bad. Crown Vic wagon also got some detailing work done. Just sorta maintaining the fleet of vehicles and trying to keep my stuff nice when I can get a free hour or two. Found a grand marquis sedan with similarly trimmed interior so spent some time collecting parts for the wagon yesterday at the pick and pull. Less of a following for those so figure I need to start saving spare parts.

Anyways, in Zwitter news I do have some updates. Not much more time in the decklid repairs and much more to go, but it is starting to take shape. Also obtained a later 58-63ish donor piece that I think is going to cut overall repair time down to a third of what it would have been-thanks wheelie Pete.

Donor piece:
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I noticed the donor has double thickness metal around the handle hole on the outer skin. Anyone know if w decklids had this too? Hard to tell from the bits and pieces I have left over. Inner stamping looks pretty much the same.

Overall shape starting to come back pretty well here. Probably time to do a bit more sanding and maybe some shrinking disc work.
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@gene, I’m not worried about the body of my car not being split correct. Even though plan is to lift it like the war era cars I want to restore the body to OG Zwitter specs as close as possible.

@jimone thanks for motivating me to make some small amount of progress.

@bally thanks for congrats on the family, it’s been awesome so far. Zwitter headlight switch is unique and not round housing like later ovals. Doesn’t have interior light functionality built in-separate switch for that which happens to be similar to BD bus semaphore switch.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Neil, I know you have a lot on your plate, but nothing seems to slow you down much ! I'm picking up my repro Typ 87 body from Cooker's VW on Friday and giving them my '50 Standard Sedan to do a complete do-over and correct all the
crappy previous repairs, I just hope there is a car under the paint ! I've been working on the chassis mods for the Typ 87, starting at the rear, hope to try your adapter bushing for the BD spindles when I get the transaxle figured out. I'm fitting Typ I rear brakes in the hope it will narrow the rear track enough to fit the 6" Centerline wheels under the fender.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

hey neil-

here are some pics of my w decklids handle area and plate light. it looks like there is a little square bit on the back around the hole. hope this helps. if that not what you were asking ill be happy to investigate further.

i would like to add that im uncertain if my decklid is a zwitter original. i have bits from 52, 53 and 54 (at least) on my bug. i do believe that i have the correct plate light for a zwitter according to the garwood book. its like a ridged thing and not the one they call the popes nose.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Thanks that’s helpful. I also checked out the OG cut piece and cam definitely confirm the reinforcement looks the same through the 63ish piece. Finally understood what people where talking about with the triangular spring bracket thing, so that narrows this lid to a 52-55 piece. I think it may be original to the car because there is some remnants of OG dark blue paint that sort of resembles what a sun bleached version of what’s on the dash could have looked like? Hard to say since it’s super thin and covered with a lighter blue, a thick coat of grey primer, some yellow, some more grey and black. And rust of course. So between those clues and the fact that there’s been some impact damage to this lid and some clear impact damage to the apron it seems highly probable that it’s original. Might also explain why popes nose is missing from the parts stash. Was probably crunched.

Anyways, more hammer and dolly and file work and got the bonus holes closed up today. Many more hours to go.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Neil,
You always seem to be able to pull a rabbit out of the hat, nice hammer work on the deck lid and looks like it's going to be your usual miracle save.
Looking back through your build thread, you were working on a Typ I brake backing plate to fit to the RGB, and I decided to try that route to be able to get my 15 x 6 Centerline wheels ( very close to the Kronprinz desert wheels ) to fit under the stock fenders.
I was able to fit 60's backing plate and drums to the RGBs with very little modification but the Barndoor axles, although shorter than the '63 Typ II ( I'm using most of a '63 transaxle ) axles extend about 33mm outside the drums.
Have you tried assembling your brake / RGB combination to see how everything fits ?
I believe there are two choices to go, 1) make a cylindrical spacer to fit between the drum and axle nut, or 2) shorten and rethread the axle.
I think #2 is the better option, but beyond my machining skills.
Any thoughts ?
Gene
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Thanks gene it still needs more work but I’ll keep hammering away at it. I haven’t assembled the brakes yet but from the comparisons I did of parts I think the barndoor stub axles are the same length splines as short axle type 1 axles. 55-63 small nut bus stub axles are longer, maybe the same length as long spline 68 axles-I don’t remember now. Personally I’d probably throw a spacer in there and call it a day. When you start talking about cutting splines and rethreading it just sounds costly and time consuming.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Neil, I'll send a photo of the axle / drum assy. showing the excess length I am dealing with as soon as I get a chance. The BD stub axles are definitely longer than the short axle Typ I which is a problem for the wheels I may have to use if the Centerline 15 x 6 wheels don't work out. The BD stub axles are about 1/2" shorter than the 55- 63 stub axles. I might have out smarted myself in thinking the B D stub axles were the answer, but mocking everything up is showing the extra 33mm may be more complicated in the end. The repro nipple hubcaps may not clear the extra length of the stub axle if I have to use stock wheels. The idea to use Typ I brakes is good in theory, but a bit problematic in practice. I believe you used later Typ I brakes, but might have to deal with a similar problem.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Couple more hours in on the decklid. Getting tough to show the difference in pictures. It’s super close now. Tried the machinists blue die trick to help find lows. Makes it look less smooth than it is. Definitely a few low spots left and some slight waves but it’s sort of approaching the time where it’s best to move on to the next task. Might put a couple more hours into it before attempting to splice the rust repair section in.

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In other news, finally found the inner half of a Zwitter ashtray to complete my set which means I can think about dash repairs again. Exciting stuff.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Looks good! Pounding out round surfaces is hard. Do you have access to an English wheel? Or maybe make one? Makes the job super easy when both sides of the panel can be accessed! I bought a small English wheel to try out on the fenders. Got it off eNay for next to nothing. If it works, I will go ahead and construct a bigger model using some steel I have and the wheels from this intro level unit!

Good to see you doing something! I was going to reach out in another week. I can faintly remember the demands of a new baby in the house. Got a feeling when grandkids pop up I will get a reminder!

Love seeing your updates. I ALWAYS check your thread position on the board.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Thanks Jimbo-good to see you back out in your shop too, I’m still waiting patiently for your firewall wiring clip dimensions, if you could be so kind.

I do have an English wheel but I wanted to get this as close as possible before maybe using that to smooth it out a bit. I may not need it at all actually. The thing with the wheel is you can really stretch stuff out and do weird things to the metal if you aren’t careful. These W lids have a lot of changing radii and I suspect a lot of internal tension from stamping and I just wanted to be careful and do it by hand. Maybe once I trim out what’s left of the inner panel I’ll do some wheel work with it but after spending a couple more hours today I really think it might not need it. Will need a filler skim coat anyways before paint due to the pitting.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

nshaddox wrote:
Thanks Jimbo-good to see you back out in your shop too, I’m still waiting patiently for your firewall wiring clip dimensions, if you could be so kind.

I do have an English wheel but I wanted to get this as close as possible before maybe using that to smooth it out a bit. I may not need it at all actually. The thing with the wheel is you can really stretch stuff out and do weird things to the metal if you aren’t careful. These W lids have a lot of changing radii and I suspect a lot of internal tension from stamping and I just wanted to be careful and do it by hand. Maybe once I trim out what’s left of the inner panel I’ll do some wheel work with it but after spending a couple more hours today I really think it might not need it. Will need a filler skim coat anyways before paint due to the pitting.

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DAMN IT!

I will get those out in a few hours. Sorry brother!
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TDCTDI wrote:
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look.


67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Neil, Amazing as usual ! Gene
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Here are my dimensions from my replaced luggage shelf. This piece came from a 59 Bug.

The map.
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Support photos!
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I included the direction the triangles point. There is a pattern to them.

Will that work for you!
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There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

TDCTDI wrote:
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look.


67rustavenger wrote:
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Great work on the decklid Neil - inspirational as ever! Keep up the great work and equally great documentation.

Cheers. Dave
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Keep it up! Applause Applause I'm slacking on mine.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Thanks dudes.

@Jimbo, appreciate the firewall clip pics and map that should work for me I think.

Finally had time to separate the inner decklid scraps from the w lid and the donor piece. Went better than anticipated, had been dreading this since spot welds were impossible to see on the w lid due to all the pitting.

I made a cardboard template to help me keep the shape close as I make the next steps towards splicing and dicing.

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I did notice the later decklid outer skin has less material in the flange than the early W lid appears to have. Looks like VW kind of scalloped out the flange towards the apex of the lid to make the metal tip over easier? It’s a pretty aggressive fold from a metal shaping perspective. Anyone know when this started? You can sort of see the scalloped flange on the left of the 4th picture above…

This is just a mock-up for now but the 58-63ish lid should work awesome for the inner metal and save me so much fab time trying to fix what I had left of the w lid. Thx wheelie Pete!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

So I’m I bit cautious on getting into doing the lower edge of the decklid. Part of me is thinking it might be wise to wait until tear apron time to get into that, but part of me is saying nah just go for it. So while I decide what to do with myself I decided organize the shop a bit and to fill holes.

Made a lofted shelf to get the pile of junk off the ground so I’d have a space to work over winter. This has been on my list for a few years now.
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And I got the car turned around to start more passenger side work because I lost drivers side motivation. Wanted to get this done before the snow but we’ve hardly had any yet.
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Here’s the passenger rear quarter with trim holes filled and smoothed. I’m convinced these were not factory. Spacing was haphazard.
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Decided to keep going with hole filling on passenger door. Last original panel I have that needs it for the car. Inside bonus holes first.
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Gone.
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Outside next. Spent a couple hours trying to pop out some small dents along the belt line first. Access is terrible but better than it will be later. Need a third hand.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Nice! Forward progress. I like seeing that!
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There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

TDCTDI wrote:
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