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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32596 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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epowell Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015 Posts: 4733 Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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djkeev wrote: |
I threw away two VW boots in good shape about a month ago.......
Dave |
OUCH!!!!!
That hurts almost as much as the mistake I just made
Most guys on youtube are recommending SILICON GASKET MAKER for this kind of repair, but Libby recommended GOOP:
https://www.amazon.com/Amazing-GOOP-160012-Automotive-Adhesive/dp/B000CCID28
I used CA glue cuz I had it here... CA is insanely strong. That is what they use to glue in your dental work. But it is not so flexible... I'm not sure if this one little area of my boot needs a ton of flexibility - - - we'll see. _________________ www.edwardpowell.com |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32596 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Alan Brase Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 4532 Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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pathao wrote: |
I made a typo, a meant
"And I would not trust that inner seal to last very long."
If you feel the bearings are okay don't touch that.
The dirt I am afraid of is not between #14 - #12 - #13 but between #11 and #16 (or #11 - #14). Which would ruin that seal pretty quickly.
If you are going to disassemble the driveshaft CV joint. You only got 4 more bolts to remove the hub housing assy. I think the castle nut is the toughest to remove and you are way past that. |
I suspected a typo just from context. Actually, if you notice a typo on this venue, just hit "edit" button and fix your mistakes.
SOMETIMES, IF I ONLY NOTICE MY MISTAKE LATER, and people have already corrected me, I still correct my mistake, then put (edited) after. That way for someone reading later, all the comments still make sense.
I do a lot of fast keyboard entry on a desktop and "fat finger" a LOT. some I miss before I hit send.
BTY, your English is pretty good. Je ne parlez Francais...but try to read it. I love to hear French, it is so lyrical. _________________ Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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Alan Brase Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 4532 Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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I have to say it is remarkable how durable these bearings are. Certainly a good idea to push in some new grease.
But in the 600,000 miles I have driven in about 8 different Vanagons and never had a rear axle bearing fail. _________________ Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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epowell Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015 Posts: 4733 Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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djkeev wrote: |
epowell wrote: |
djkeev wrote: |
I threw away two VW boots in good shape about a month ago.......
Dave |
OUCH!!!!!
That hurts almost as much as the mistake I just made |
I so would have sent them to you ...... I was purging unneeded stuff........
Dave |
Shucks
Yeah I know what purging is like.... doing that now on my mom's house and it is so hard to decide about chucking good stuff - but sometimes it must be done.
However, original CV boots I'd at least try to sell them. Worth at least $30 a piece. _________________ www.edwardpowell.com |
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epowell Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015 Posts: 4733 Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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By the way, here is a foto of the inside of the trailing arm - on the side where there might have been an issue with debris falling in behind the stub flange. Yeah it IS really dirty back there.
Next up, here are fotos of the condition of all the CVs... The first axle is good, these CVs show almost no ware at all. I think they were replaced because on the wheel side there were 3 allen head bolts and 3 12-point head bolts... from my understanding originally there were only allen bolts... so obviously some work was done at one point on these CVs. Here is the drivers side wheel side.
Next is the drivers side tranny side;
Next is the passenger side wheel side; Not looking so good!
Finally, passenger side tranny side: These look pretty back > keep in mind I am showing you the WORST spots only.
CONCLUSION...
So, I figure that this boot repair can last for a while, and also even the passenger side CV still has some life left in it > however, I should not delay too long in sourcing a boot and 2 CVs.
What occurred to me might be a good solution could be to find a whole axle off of another van. If the CVs would be in good shape I could swap in those for my bad ones, then from my bad axle (which still has great boots) I could swap one of those good boots over to replace my repaired boot.
Out in Surrey (2.5hour bike ride from where I am), they have a couple of Vanagons there... the guy wants $100CAD for a whole axle. If I would know that these CVs are good I would go for that... but it's a risk isn't it? Bike all the way out there, pull the axle... and still not even know if it is good or not.
I'm tempted to do that, but think that I will rather take my time and source a good axle slowly slowly.... perhaps back in Europe I can find one easier and cheaper and not have to pull it and risk it being bad. _________________ www.edwardpowell.com |
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T3messie Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2017 Posts: 209 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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Hi Ed,
swap the axles to the opposite side and be good.
Max |
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Alan Brase Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 4532 Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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T3messie wrote: |
Hi Ed,
swap the axles to the opposite side and be good.
Max |
Upvoted.
The single worst thing for CV's is torn boots and sand. I had one get noisy once on a car I just bought. Laid under the car and messaged the grease in the axle end of the boot back into the are of the balls and grooves. That made it quiet for about 3 more years. _________________ Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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epowell Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015 Posts: 4733 Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:36 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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Getting them back together and greased up.
The "good" CV (drivers side) is definitely an "new" aftermarket piece. The Passenger side CV which is more worn out - actually one of them is still OK, and the other one is on it's last legs - this is an original VW. So sometime in the semi-distant past someone replaced the driver's side CV. So it looks like I am likely the 2nd person to "look at" these CVs in 40 years.
Quite amazing that the original CV is in as good a shape as it is, considering 40 years!!!
T3messie wrote: |
Hi Ed,
swap the axles to the opposite side and be good.
Max |
Hey Max
I was just thinking about you today - I thought to myself THAT'S the guy who can find me a good used axle in Europe!
BTW, I'm still going to rebuild that DM I got off you... maybe with Alan's help _________________ www.edwardpowell.com |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22648 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:26 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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Those CVS will only last another 100,000 miles of you repack them and keep good boots on them. If there are some pits, knock them down with a fine file.
They aren’t neurons. They are really robust pieces of metal under low stress _________________ .ssS! |
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T3messie Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2017 Posts: 209 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:33 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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I run only used axles, some in worse condition than yours. Your shown "on its last legs" was never run in reverse direction (apart from the few kilometers in R"), so it surely can have a second life on the unworn surfaces.
If the balls show no pitting. |
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epowell Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015 Posts: 4733 Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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T3messie wrote: |
I run only used axles, some in worse condition than yours. Your shown "on its last legs" was never run in reverse direction (apart from the few kilometers in R"), so it surely can have a second life on the unworn surfaces.
If the balls show no pitting. |
Yes - running in reverse is a brilliant idea - theoretically it should put the new wear on totally fresh new surfaces.
I grease up everything last night until 130am on the bench... Now reinstalling, I will do it like this:
"Before : 1---2 (trans) 3---4
A f t e r : 3---4 (trans) 1---2 _________________ www.edwardpowell.com |
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epowell Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015 Posts: 4733 Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:11 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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At this point I'd like to ask for a little advice and suggestions:
I'm just about to reinstall the CVs, and last week I also did a whole bunch of work on my rear brakes - and I think those need adjusting... the 46mm nut is not yet torqued fully, just snug.
So before installing the CVs I would like to be able to freely spin the wheels, without any interference from the brake shoes, and the gearbox - to see how well the bearings spin, and to check for any play.
So I guess I should do this: (??)
1. loosen parking brake cable a bit (under the van)
2. back off a bit on the brake adjusters so there is no 'drag' from the shoes.
3. make sure 46mm nut is as snug as possible without torquing
4. at this point the wheels should spin totally freely and there should not be too much play
Next I'd like some advice regarding adjusting the rear brakes and parking brake... do I do it like this: (??)
1. loosen parking brake cable under van
2. tweek adjuster so that there is only a tiny tiny bit of drag against the shoes
3. finally, slowly adjust the parking brake cable under the van so I get tight parking brake @ 3 clicks
4. ?? how to I know I have equal tension from the parking brake on both sides?
EDIT:
- I guess i will have to test and re-adjust everything once I get my hydraulic system back together and bled... _________________ www.edwardpowell.com |
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epowell Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015 Posts: 4733 Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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MISTAKE! I'm surprised nobody caught this... must not be paying close attention.
epowell wrote: |
"Before : 1---2 (trans) 3---4
A f t e r : 3---4 (trans) 1---2 |
If I swap the new AXLES in in this ^^^ way then I would not be "reversing" the direction of rotation and therefore not be extending the life of the CVs.
Unfortunately last night I already installed "3---4"... but the good news is that that axle had very un-worn CVs, so for now keeping the same direction of rotation is not a tragedy.
Glad I checked this because I am about to install the other axle, and this one is quite worn out in one direction, so I will install at least THIS one in reverse "2---1".
Then maybe a few years from now I can change the "3---4" to "4---3". HOWEVER, it might well be sooner than that if the boot repair I made does not hold. One problem so far with the boot repair is that it made one area of the boot a bit more bulky and ridged just where I need to put the socket to tighten the bolt.... ....anyhow, time will tell. _________________ www.edwardpowell.com |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9923 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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It doesn't matter which joint is in or out.
All that matters is which side of the tranny the axle is installed on.
The direction of rotation isn't relevant.
What you have to think about is where the engine forces are applied inside each joint.
Mark |
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