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dan97019
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2006
Posts: 326
Location: portland Oregon
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 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:56 am Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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| GMendoza, Your car sounds good what exhaust are you running? My fan seems louder than that are you running a venturi ring? |
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GMendoza
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2007
Posts: 341
Location: Alta Loma, CA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:51 am Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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| dan97019 wrote: |
| GMendoza, Your car sounds good what exhaust are you running? My fan seems louder than that are you running a venturi ring? |
Thank you. It's a custom exhaust using 1.5" heater boxes, sideflow header and two dynomax 12" race bullets. No venturi ring. The exhausst is a little loud so that may be why the fan whine doesnt come through as much. |
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andrig's
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Louisville, CO
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| Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:25 am Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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| 94touring wrote: |
| Fan results on my 2110 bus. The bus is setup with all the proper tins meticulously in place, thermostat flaps, venturi ring, 356 alternator pulley, and a 4.12 with an 89 4th. Tuned with a wideband and a CHT gauge hooked up under #3 plug. The gauge has never been dead accurate but it serves as a trend gauge, always staying within about a 30 degree window in all styles of driving. 15 low on a day with freezing temperatures and 15 high when it's approaching 100 degrees outside when I'm doing 70mph down the highway. Had to slow down last month from 70-73mph to 65mph doing a drive across the country loaded with camping gear when outside temps hit 95f, hellish headwinds, and with long slight inclined grades to maintain a temperature that's below my peak average for normal driving conditions. That all being said here's what I found with the Andrig fan doing back to back real world test. Andrig fan test #1 done yesterday at an ambient air temperature of 88 degrees from my shop then directly on the highway maintaining 70mph at 3600 rpms going approximately 3 miles and returning. Temperatures hit my max peak average where I'd begin to slow. Test #2 was a 60mph steep hill climb in 4th gear, approximately a quarter mile long, and wide open throttle starting from the base of the hill. Temperatures exceeded my max peak average by a few degrees. Put my welded fan back on today and ran the same test, the only difference being it was 91 degrees out when conducting them today. First run on the highway at 70mph showed 20 degrees cooler than the Andrig fan and the 60mph hill climb showed 12 degrees cooler. |
I have thought about your results for quite awhile, as it doesn't make much sense to me, other than the possibility of engine bay not being able to get enough air flow. That doesn't exactly make sense to me either.
Having said that, one thing that caught my attention is the Porsche 356 alternator/generator pulley in your setup. The smaller diameter pulley, obviously means that you are spinning the fan faster since the ratio is now in the range of 1.8 to 1, instead of approximately 1.6 to 1. Considering that this means you will use more HP to spin the fan at any given engine speed, and the fact that the v-belt starts to slip in the 4,000 to 4,500 RPM range with the standard ratio, it's likely that the belt is slipping earlier than that with the OEM fan, and then earlier still with my fan since the air flow is higher (higher air flow does requires slightly more hp draw).
Doing some back of the envelope math, it is possible that belt slippage is happening in the RPM range of your 70-73 mph trip.
It would be interesting to see if going to the standard ratio for the fan, actually improves the high speed highway cruising results.
Better still would be moving to a poly v-belt pulley setup (serpentine), which can transmit more hp (higher coefficient of friction) from the crankshaft through the belt to the alternator/generator pulley and fan.
Porsche's pulley ratio was designed with their fan in mind, and their fan had only 15 blades on it, but is wider, while the VW fan has 28 blades. |
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94touring
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2020
Posts: 311
Location: Oklahoma - OK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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| The only way to know is if people hook up a CHT gauge under a plug and do comparisons. So far I haven't seen any real world data except for myself. |
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andrig's
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Louisville, CO
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:12 am Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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| 94touring wrote: |
| The only way to know is if people hook up a CHT gauge under a plug and do comparisons. So far I haven't seen any real world data except for myself. |
You could change the alternator/generator pulley back to the original VW one, to get the ratio back to stock and see what happens. |
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94touring
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2020
Posts: 311
Location: Oklahoma - OK
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:17 am Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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| andrig's wrote: |
| 94touring wrote: |
| The only way to know is if people hook up a CHT gauge under a plug and do comparisons. So far I haven't seen any real world data except for myself. |
You could change the alternator/generator pulley back to the original VW one, to get the ratio back to stock and see what happens. |
I could but I'm not very inclined to take everything back out again to swap fans. Plus if I'm being honest I don't think the 356 pulley is negatively effecting the fan. All that would happen is it would slip earlier at X cfm if it did produce more cfm than the stock fan, matching the max amount of cfm available before the belt begins to slip. It would/should in theory always cool at or better than stock. Being that this fan is so much lighter than stock I'd expect belt slippage to be higher in rpms. The motor certainly isn't having to work as hard to turn it which is a plus. 3600 rpms isn't really even that high when factoring in the belt probably isn't at full slip with stock pulleys from somewhere between 4000 and 4500 rpms. Back when I put this bus together and had the engine built and the transaxle rebuilt and geared to match peak torque for my normal driving conditions in mind, I also did math on fan cfm output. Hence the 7 inch main and 356 alternator along with proper tins and such. In my mind it's going to cool as best as anyone could hope for. I'm always up for trying new products and ideas and don't mind tossing money at different setups. In my particular situation stock just works best. But I do follow this thread to hopefully see what other results are out there. Either way I think this fan has it's place and time. If I had a drag bug or something I'd for sure use it. |
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74 Thing
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004
Posts: 7389
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:56 am Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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I do not understand where the 1.6:1 stock upper pulley to lower pulley turn ratio came about. There are so many variables such as crank pulley OD (some stock are 6 3/4 and others are 7"), and then the width and length of the fan belts make a huge difference as well as cogged on the outside or inside can make a big difference on slipping.
I had a 6 3/4" pulley with a stock German upper pulley with the tangs and with the belt I was using the ratio was 1.8:1.
I put on a 7" pulley with the same top stock German pulley and the ratio is now close to 2:1. |
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andrig's
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Louisville, CO
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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| 94touring wrote: |
| andrig's wrote: |
| 94touring wrote: |
| The only way to know is if people hook up a CHT gauge under a plug and do comparisons. So far I haven't seen any real world data except for myself. |
You could change the alternator/generator pulley back to the original VW one, to get the ratio back to stock and see what happens. |
I could but I'm not very inclined to take everything back out again to swap fans. Plus if I'm being honest I don't think the 356 pulley is negatively effecting the fan. All that would happen is it would slip earlier at X cfm if it did produce more cfm than the stock fan, matching the max amount of cfm available before the belt begins to slip. It would/should in theory always cool at or better than stock. Being that this fan is so much lighter than stock I'd expect belt slippage to be higher in rpms. The motor certainly isn't having to work as hard to turn it which is a plus. 3600 rpms isn't really even that high when factoring in the belt probably isn't at full slip with stock pulleys from somewhere between 4000 and 4500 rpms. Back when I put this bus together and had the engine built and the transaxle rebuilt and geared to match peak torque for my normal driving conditions in mind, I also did math on fan cfm output. Hence the 7 inch main and 356 alternator along with proper tins and such. In my mind it's going to cool as best as anyone could hope for. I'm always up for trying new products and ideas and don't mind tossing money at different setups. In my particular situation stock just works best. But I do follow this thread to hopefully see what other results are out there. Either way I think this fan has it's place and time. If I had a drag bug or something I'd for sure use it. |
The belt slippage is caused by how much hp the fan draws, which is predominately caused by how much air it moves, so belt slippage will occur at lower RPM's. The weight difference does change the amount of torque that is required to change it's speed, so throttle response is better.
I know it's a pain to swap out the fans, so no worries. |
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andrig's
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Louisville, CO
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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| 74 Thing wrote: |
I do not understand where the 1.6:1 stock upper pulley to lower pulley turn ratio came about. There are so many variables such as crank pulley OD (some stock are 6 3/4 and others are 7"), and then the width and length of the fan belts make a huge difference as well as cogged on the outside or inside can make a big difference on slipping.
I had a 6 3/4" pulley with a stock German upper pulley with the tangs and with the belt I was using the ratio was 1.8:1.
I put on a 7" pulley with the same top stock German pulley and the ratio is now close to 2:1. |
The late model cars with the Doghouse cooling system used a 7" pulley, and the stock generator/alternator pulley gave it a ratio of around 1.6 to one. That varies depending on the number of spacer shims in the generator/alternator pulley used to adjust the tension of the belt, and the variance in belt lengths. |
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Dake
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2014
Posts: 481
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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| So are people running this fan ? Mine is on the shelf waiting on more feedback. |
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richierich
Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2004
Posts: 889
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| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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| Dake wrote: |
| So are people running this fan ? Mine is on the shelf waiting on more feedback. |
Mine is on the shelf aswell....waiting on the new one with re-designed hub
_________________
Blah..... |
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dubman67
Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2003
Posts: 273
Location: Big Sky Country
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:58 am Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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| richierich wrote: |
| Dake wrote: |
| So are people running this fan ? Mine is on the shelf waiting on more feedback. |
Mine is on the shelf aswell....waiting on the new one with re-designed hub |
Was going to ask if anybody got their hub yet. Guess not.
_________________
67 Bug
62 Double Cab
[url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate2-54829.png]Click to view image[/URL]
"At 17 got my first Volkswagen...and mastered the life long art of dragin...." Ice Cube |
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sgmalt46
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2005
Posts: 1296
Location: south san francisco
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:35 am Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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no hub yet .I tried emailing . I see the ad is deleted. 
maybe he gave up on trying to re-invent the wheel ? 
guess I will try it anyway and see what happens.
_________________
55 deluxe 23 window bus
64 crew cab
55 rag top beetle
66 beetle
71 square back (sold) ! good luck with it Henry!
46 beetle 552nd royal army service corps CCG |
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jsturtlebuggy
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005
Posts: 4496
Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:46 am Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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He has been giving up dates on his Facebook site Andrig’s Aircooled Technology about delays in shipping of new hub. Andrig’s also is working on a A-arm front suspension and replacement fan housing thermostat replacement louvers (sic).
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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txoval
Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004
Posts: 3553
Location: The Woodlands, TX
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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| Been running mine since they came out…no issues |
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sgmalt46
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2005
Posts: 1296
Location: south san francisco
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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| jsturtlebuggy wrote: |
| He has been giving up dates on his Facebook site Andrig’s Aircooled Technology about delays in shipping of new hub. Andrig’s also is working on a A-arm front suspension and replacement fan housing thermostat replacement louvers (sic). |
good to know I left facebook jail . i will never return. thanks! f- facebook.
thanks for the update. I will wait .
Steve.
_________________
55 deluxe 23 window bus
64 crew cab
55 rag top beetle
66 beetle
71 square back (sold) ! good luck with it Henry!
46 beetle 552nd royal army service corps CCG |
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andrig's
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Louisville, CO
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:26 am Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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| sgmalt46 wrote: |
no hub yet .I tried emailing . I see the ad is deleted.
maybe he gave up on trying to re-invent the wheel ?
guess I will try it anyway and see what happens. |
No, I haven't given up. There is nothing to give up on.
You can see what happened here: https://youtu.be/bkiRHCMUPr0
Just an issue with a dimension in the manufacturing. Unfortunately, it's taking a long time for manufacturing and shipping these days.
I have a test part that I was supposed to get on Friday, the 22nd, but FedEx has continued to delay the shipping one day at a time each day. It's literally in the local facility 5 minutes away from me for 5 days now. I have no idea why they are not delivering it.
Once I have the test piece I'll get the hubs manufactured again. |
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andrig's
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Louisville, CO
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:26 am Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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| sgmalt46 wrote: |
| jsturtlebuggy wrote: |
| He has been giving up dates on his Facebook site Andrig’s Aircooled Technology about delays in shipping of new hub. Andrig’s also is working on a A-arm front suspension and replacement fan housing thermostat replacement louvers (sic). |
good to know I left facebook jail . i will never return. thanks! f- facebook.
thanks for the update. I will wait .
Steve. |
You can also get updates via my YouTube channel, and the latest update is here: https://youtu.be/bkiRHCMUPr0 |
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andrig's
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Louisville, CO
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:29 am Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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| sgmalt46 wrote: |
no hub yet .I tried emailing . I see the ad is deleted.
maybe he gave up on trying to re-invent the wheel ?
guess I will try it anyway and see what happens. |
Just wanted to clarify that the ad wasn't deleted. Ads on The Samba forum expire automatically after a set time period.
I just didn't want to spend too much advertising, knowing that I was going to be coming out with the new mounting hub. The delays, some of my doing, and some having to do with manufacturing lead times and shipping delays, have thrown a wrench into my initial plans.
I'll be doing ads fairly soon though. |
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vdubrookie
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2017
Posts: 306
Location: Battle Creek,Mi
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:48 am Post subject: Re: andrigs fan |
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| Andrig, please let me know as soon as the update is available. Thanks. |
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