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Help with hybrid ball lugnuts
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Boosted60
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Joined: November 07, 2012
Posts: 21
Location: Pasadena CA
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:03 pm    Post subject: Help with hybrid ball lugnuts Reply with quote

Im going to be putting on method racing wide 5 wheels on my 4x130 hubs using the empi adapter.

The adapter is threaded for a m12x1.5 lug bolt.
Since the adapter is thin, I will be using m12 studs.
The wheel uses r14 ball seats.

I cant find anyone that makes a m12x1.5 lug nut with a r14 ball size.
They all seem to be r12, which will not fit correctly.

Ive seen a company offer hybrid bolts. but id prefer to use studs with nuts if possible.

Am i barking up the wrong tree trying to find such a thing?
id rather not have to drill and tap 20 holes to m14 if there is an alternative out there.
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FritzCP
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Joined: October 23, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with hybrid ball lugnuts Reply with quote

I just went through this exact scenario last Spring trying to fit Porsche gas burner knockoffs to 5x130 12mm GM studded rotor on my customs bs brakes. I hunted far and wide, and no M12 r14 lug nuts exist. The vintage Mercedes crown runs into the M12 vs M14 lug issue all the time, try their forum boards too.

I couldn't find anyone to re-machine the lugs from R12 to R14.

In the end, I drilled n tapped the holes to M14. the amount of material removed from the holes to convert it wasn't as much as you would think.

With the amount of M14 ball seat Porsche wheels mounted on early beetles, I'm really surprised a M12 R14 ball seal lug isn't commonly available in our VW world.

if you find something, post back.
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Boosted60
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Location: Pasadena CA
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with hybrid ball lugnuts Reply with quote

i think i may have to do exactly that.

i have a m14 r14 porsche lug nut and it fits perfectly in the wheel.

I ordered a set of the ball seat conversion washers to see what kind of contact patch im going to get.

I have got conflicting information about these washers. some say they are r12 some say they are r13. If they are r13, they just might work. r12, no way.

Kartek lists these washers as the correct ones for mounting my specific wheels. But when i called and spoke to someone they did not seem very confident in that statement.

I will report back as soon as i have some info.
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Boosted60
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Joined: November 07, 2012
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Location: Pasadena CA
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: Help with hybrid ball lugnuts Reply with quote

ok, so i got my adapter plates and conversion washers in and had a chance to test fitment yesterday.

Long story short, they will not work. The ball seat radius of the conversion washers are much too small. if i had to guess, r12.

Out of the box, the contact patch is barely on the inner edge of the wheel bolt hole.
If you try to torque your wheels like this you will ruin your wheels.

I have no idea why Kartek says on their website that these will work. They wont.

I even went as far as grinding the washer on the belt sander to try to move the contact patch farther out. it was mildly successful, but not enough to give me confidence to run it.

There is a company called otis that makes hybrid lug bolts for this exact situation. I spoke with the owner and he said the lug nut i need simply doesnt exist.
Even though i would have preferred to use studs with nuts, it looks like the only viable option are these hybrid bolts.

So, i ordered a set. They may require some trimming to fit flush with the back of the adapter, but i think theyre the cure for this situation.

Hope this info might help anyone who might need it.
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jsturtlebuggy
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Joined: August 24, 2005
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Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with hybrid ball lugnuts Reply with quote

What I have done in the past was to take stock VW 12mm lug bolts and modified them to a lug nut.
I did this by first cutting of 12mm threaded part. Then machine face smooth were thread were using a lathe.
Next was to use a centering bit in lathe to find center of nut before drilling them to size.
With lug bolt in lathe chuck, using a Letter Z bit or the closest which is 27/64” drill bit for a 12x1.50mm.
After drilling all of them, Then I tapped them by hand
If you have access to a mill it would make it easier to do.

It did take me several hours doing it the way I did

I used the 12mm lug bolts that are basically flat on the top. There some of the 12mm lug bolts that have a recess in the top part that to large to use
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