new battery no power-update

[brownbus2]

Engine back in the bus, everything hooked up (wires vacuum etc.) new tank so I just put about a gallon of gas in to test...tried to start...

good turn over but did not start...noticed there were some grounds not connected (one of the two by the hatch and what i think is the fuel pump by the firewall. Connected those...turned over, radio came on etc. but no start..

battery ran down from starting attempts...charged battery...no power --no lights or anything..

battery was 6 years old so I replaced it...

No power at all now... Where should I look first?
_________________
formerly known as Brown_Bus
1976 FI Marino Yellow Westy

[busdaddy]

From the looks of the cable for the negative terminal in your gallery pics it's been a long time since it's been off and cleaned, red is also a bad choice for a ground cable, one bad jump starting move and the expensive smoke gets out. Time to remove all the battery cables and clean both ends of the cables and where they attach, also the strap on the nose of the transmission. And if there's any of those universal battery terminals that bolt on to the ends of the cables in play it'll be money well spent to invest in new cables with crimped on terminals.

Once you get cranking restored we'll move on to diagnosing the no fire problem.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!

[brownbus2]

cleaned and tightened the terminals on the cables at battery end.

crawled under the bus with multi-meter. with key turned im getting steady volts at the end on the cables at the post of solenoid as well as some of the wires at the relay that is in the pic.

pic is before the engine was removed..the wires are a bit cleaner but Im about to head back out and remove and clean the connectors and check again for loose terminations etc.

more info --Before the engine removal..the starter , a few times, did make a sound harder than a click but not a big clunk...

_________________
formerly known as Brown_Bus
1976 FI Marino Yellow Westy

[brownbus2]

if the cleaning doesnt fix this should I jump it using the method below?

should I also nix that relay? If so do i just remove the wires that connect to the relay, or, do those now removed wires need to go elsewhere?

_________________
formerly known as Brown_Bus
1976 FI Marino Yellow Westy

[busdaddy]

That's the worst place to locate the relay, if you do replace it move it to the inside of the engine compartment out of the weather. To bypass it move the red/black wire from the relay to the spade terminal on the starter.
Those connections look nasty, some time spent removing and shining every connection can only improve things.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!

[Wildthings]

If you look inside you battery cable ends and you see a black coating that is a high impedance oxidation layer and it needs to be removed so that you have clean shiny metal showing. You can buy a tool to clean it off, or just use a sharp pen knife to scrape at it carefully. Treat your cable ends and battery posts with a goodly smear of Vasoline to prevent further corrosion.

Are you 100% sure you have the cables to the battery attached to the correct posts? Easy to get them reversed if you aren't careful. You can't depend on the color of the cable alone as VW originally used black cable for the (+) side and who knows what some PO might have put on there.

[brownbus2]

yes the cables are correct. the negative is fairly short and was still attached to the body of bus...I am getting voltage at the starter end of the battery cable. just nowhere after that...

~refresher: It turned over during first few attempts to start after engine install. I had only put a small amount of gas into new tank (mainly because the tank from cip1 had too short of outlets and their work-around was to bend them, so, I didnt put a lot of gas in in case of a weld break in the outlets). Then no power or cranking. Battery was old, so I replaced it. Still nothing. Not even turning over.~

was out during lunch and cleaned terminals a bit...tight under there so in a bit going to put it on jack stand to have more room to work.

If the relay is bad, would that prohibit the bus from getting accessory (lights , dash etc.) power as well? strap between the solenoid and starter looks worn. not broken, but still worn. Would that affect it?

also just for giggles, I checked fuse box....the fuse on #8 is blown.
_________________
formerly known as Brown_Bus
1976 FI Marino Yellow Westy

[brownbus2]

cleaned all the terminals at the starter. Cleaned up the ground to trans.

I now have power! And its cranking, but weakly. I did not clean the relay terminals. I was doing solenoid first then relay to isolate the problem--though in all fairness all those terminals are full of crud.

Some of the wires at the starter end have corrosion on the threads themselves.

Should I get some crc and squirt a bit on and then wire brush them? Or snip a bit and re-terminate?


Thanks to the usual suspects for all of the help! Ill report back later today when i can work on it again.
_________________
formerly known as Brown_Bus
1976 FI Marino Yellow Westy

[ToolBox]

[brownbus2]

brand new battery

cranks strongly now...

tries to start. not quite a sputter, but, engine seems to almost turn over but doesnt fully start.

weird thing is i disconnected the pump ground and had a similar result, though that may have been residual fuel already there...(can i attach a shorter ground to the body near the pump to test if the ground is good?)

where should I start tomorrow? test the pump? then dual relay? then fuel pressure?

some may remember that i was asking which wire went to which side on my cold start valve...could I have the wires wrong?

I want to star my trouble shoot at the correct place...

Thanks!!
_________________
formerly known as Brown_Bus
1976 FI Marino Yellow Westy

[busdaddy]

Start by testing the DR and the pump at the same time, depress the flap in the AFM while the key is on and listen for a click from the DR and the hissing of flowing fuel. (if you plan on taking more than a couple minutes for this test remove the green wire from the coil, don't forget to replace it after).

If you hear a click and pump action look for a big vacuum leak, like a split in the S boot you didn't see.

How have you set the timing?, how long has the engine been out?, what kind of fuel were you running before it was removed (ethanol?)?

The CSV wiring should be good if you followed the instruction in that thread, even if it's not working it's not really cold enough to need the CSV to start right now.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!

[SGKent]

[brownbus2]

engine has been out since march...to replace tank then ... a forever project of cleaning and painting etc. the engine

new fuel lines...vacuum lines looked good. the ones that weren't were replaced...

was running ethanol-free until that placed closed down...

timing was set just with the feeler while engine was out (if the gap got out of wack, could that cause this, or would that not effect start-up?) ...before then, before engine pull, I set it by timing light.

The instructions in the csv thread varied from detailed to wires in either slot didnt matter...
_________________
formerly known as Brown_Bus
1976 FI Marino Yellow Westy

[busdaddy]

Even with ethanol sitting since this March shouldn't glue them shut (famous last words), it's more likely a vacuum leak if the timing hasn't changed since it ran last. When it's trying to fire (catch?) is there any black smoke from the tail pipe?

I remember that CSV thread now, the wire placement in the valve doesn't matter, just on the TTS. If it's not puffing black smoke put some gas in a squirt bottle and introduce some (tablespoon...ish) through a port on the S boot where a big vacuum hose attaches (put the hose back before attempting to start), does it seem more willing to start?, or less?
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!

[Wildthings]

What timing spec did you use?

[SGKent]

3 things are needed

compression
air and fuel
spark

Your job will be made easiest if you just try to figure which is missing.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[brownbus2]

timing was set mat 7.5 BTDC..using light..

part of the problem was indeed vacuum...the hose from the elbow/S to the aux air regulator had come off at the metal elbow.

connected it.

So...it starts up...not each try, some times it "sputters", but mostly when it starts it revs up--a lot, then quickly dies (stops running, starts stopping). Could that partly be a throttle cable issue that needs adjusting

Thats where Im at. Where do I start first in trouble shooting.

Gas is new. engine was pulled for tank replacement

thanks
troy
_________________
formerly known as Brown_Bus
1976 FI Marino Yellow Westy

[Wildthings]

[brownbus2]

Heading back out...on another thread someone mentioned brake booster hose. Ill check there fist.

I didnt replace every vacuum hose. Mainly because some looked good and they were also hard to find new ones. I did replace any that were tearing or had holes etc.

The elbow that goes to the aux air reg, it is new but not as rigid rubber as the old and torn one. If that is kinked would it act similar to a major leak..?

Ill report back.

Thanks!
_________________
formerly known as Brown_Bus
1976 FI Marino Yellow Westy

[SGKent]

smoke generator would be a good solution here. Gary put a link for one in another thread the other day for about $68. That will quickly identify where the leak is. You'll need a small compressor to work the smoke generator. Could be an injector seal, elbow, booster or hose, cracked S-boot, bad EGR diaphragm etc..
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin