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Mitch-Again Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2021 Posts: 4 Location: Mississippi
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:13 pm Post subject: 1300 runs only when starter is engaged |
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I had a new 1300 installed in my Ghia 10 years ago. Due to kids, hurricanes and work, I never ran in much. I tried firing it up last week and am only getting it to run with the starter fully engaged. It sounds great, but as soon as I let off on the ignition (to run position) the motors dies. Installed a new ignition switch, but did not fix the problem. Any thoughts on troubleshooting much appreciated. - |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51121 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 runs only when starter is engaged |
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Everything you describe sounds like an ignition switch problem, new switches aren't all perfect right out of the box anymore.
Temporarily attach a test lead between the battery + and the #15 (+) terminal on the ignition coil (the one with the black wires on it) and see if it stays running. You'll have to remove the jumper to stop it if that works.
If that test proves positive it's time for a closer look at the ignition switch, and maybe how you connected the wires if a test light shows the black (ignition/run) wire shows voltage when you release the key. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26777 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 runs only when starter is engaged |
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Have you cleaned the points? |
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Mitch-Again Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2021 Posts: 4 Location: Mississippi
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 runs only when starter is engaged |
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Thanks for the quick responses! I'll try the test lead from the battery to coil in the morning. Sounds like a good way to verify a working ignition switch. As for the points, I'll check them, but it runs like a beast with the starter engaged...would dirty points even allow that to happen? |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51121 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 runs only when starter is engaged |
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Mitch-Again wrote: |
it runs like a beast with the starter engaged...would dirty points even allow that to happen? |
Not likely, more like not run at all, sounds like it runs OK but loses power to the coil when you release the key, am I correct? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26777 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 runs only when starter is engaged |
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In some conditions yes. I'm not sure how you would know it runs correctly with the starter engaged. You can't drive very far like that without roasting the starter
Last edited by modok on Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:49 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Mitch-Again Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2021 Posts: 4 Location: Mississippi
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 runs only when starter is engaged |
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When starter is engaged, I can give it gas and it purrs. When I let off the starter it dies completely, no sputter. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26777 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 runs only when starter is engaged |
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Did you test that the ignition switch works before or after you "Installed it"?
If the wires were on wrong...... then it would do that. I don't think I ever tried it, but, yep pretty sure that any wrong way would produce this type of result. |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20377 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 runs only when starter is engaged |
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As others mention it sounds like you are losing power to coil when you let off ign. switch from "start" to "on"....
Hot wire coil to battery and see if it runs when you back key off, if does, as others have said you have bad ignition switch...... _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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dogmeat Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2021 Posts: 146
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 runs only when starter is engaged |
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I do not know this car but I know electrics and I know other vintage cars. typically there is a "ballast" resistor in the circuit. the key switch has Start and Run..... in the Run position battery power goes through the ballast resistor to lower the voltage to the coil. in the Start position the battery is connected direct to the coil.
the reason for this is that when the starter is engaged, the battery voltage drops. the coil is actually made to produce normal spark at 9-10 volts (which is what you get during start) once the engine is running the power to the coil must be reduced or the coil will fry. that is accomplished by the ballast resistor.
check the wiring to the switch, my guess is it is not wired correctly. and yes, unless you have a modern ignition replacement you still need the ballast resistor. they are wire wound ceramic... low ohm, high watt |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51121 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 runs only when starter is engaged |
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dogmeat wrote: |
,,,,,,,. typically there is a "ballast" resistor in the circuit. the key switch has Start and Run..... in the Run position battery power goes through the ballast resistor to lower the voltage to the coil. in the Start position the battery is connected direct to the coil. |
Good suggestion, but VW ignition switches aren't that complex.
Most other cars of that era use a ballast resistor, but not a VW, later models did divorce accessory power from the ignition circuit while cranking, but that's not until 1971. All models use a full voltage coil, something using a 1300 wouldn't even have the bonus circuit on the ignition switch, same circuit and coil voltage for cranking as for running. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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dogmeat Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2021 Posts: 146
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 runs only when starter is engaged |
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ha ha,,,, see, told ya I don't know, but bring it over, I'll figure it out and fix it
P.S. check the switch |
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bsairhead Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008 Posts: 3560 Location: viroqua wi.
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 runs only when starter is engaged |
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Swap the two red wires. The one coming from the fuse block and the one going to the starter. |
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earthquake Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008 Posts: 3984 Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 runs only when starter is engaged |
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Does it have the solenoid on the side of the carb? Is the wire on it go to the coil?
eQ _________________ 74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
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Mitch-Again Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2021 Posts: 4 Location: Mississippi
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 runs only when starter is engaged |
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Thanks for the great discussion on my problem. So I tried the test wire from the + battery terminal to the #15 (+) terminal on the ignition coil as suggested by Busdaddy and others and it worked. Was able to keep the engine running with ignition key in the "run" position. Engine ran fine until I disconnected the test lead. Then tested voltage at the #15 terminal on the ignition switch when key was in run position ang got nothing. So does this mean the "brand new" switch is bad? I guess that what I get for $16. Any additional thoughts welcome! Thanks again guys. |
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Pops67Beetle Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2021 Posts: 127 Location: Queens, NY
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 runs only when starter is engaged |
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Before you decide the ignition switch is bad try running a jumper from a hot terminal to the wire to the coil at the fuse block. If still no power to the coil then the connection at the fuse block is bad/corroded or the wire itself is bad. _________________ When I close my eyes I’m a little kid riding in the cubby..... Priceless!
13 y/o son’s quote while watching us replace the pedal cluster…. “Who says the Germans lost the war.”
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51121 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 runs only when starter is engaged |
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Sound advice, but the OP says they already tested at the switch and got nothing on #15, sounds like China's finest strikes again......
The only other possibility I can imagine would be a severely worn lock cylinder not quite getting the switch into the happy spot, another switch would still be first on my list before digging into a job like that. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20377 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 runs only when starter is engaged |
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Pops67Beetle wrote: |
Before you decide the ignition switch is bad try running a jumper from a hot terminal to the wire to the coil at the fuse block. If still no power to the coil then the connection at the fuse block is bad/corroded or the wire itself is bad. |
Lead to ignition switch (from battery) and then on to coil is unfused....IF it runs with key in start position it is not a "power" (voltage) issue or wiring issue, it is a bad "new" ignition switch.... And the way things are today I don't find that very alarming..... _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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