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Building a 356 one chunk at a time
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finster
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:23 am    Post subject: Re: Building a 356 one chunk at a time Reply with quote

why not buy an envemo...? the new porsche wont have the soul soundtrack of an aircooled motor.
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thevinster
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a 356 one chunk at a time Reply with quote

I test drove a 356 and it was like driving my bug. I bought a new cayman its been great. I still love the idea of a 356 but dang this thing is fast and its got ac so its hard to imagine going back.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a 356 one chunk at a time Reply with quote

Can't have been much of a drive if you think it was like a bug? Maybe it was a bug? The 356 was amazing on the highway no comparison to a beetle, It would pull hills at 70 mph the beetle was wound out in 3rd on. It was a lot more stable on loose stuff too. It held longer if overstayed so much that if you loose it generally they go all the way around. Pretty much can make a RT turn in one at 40 mph if you got all the lanes. At 65 you can change lanes so fast it hurts.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a 356 one chunk at a time Reply with quote

thevinster wrote:
I test drove a 356 and it was like driving my bug. I bought a new cayman its been great. I still love the idea of a 356 but dang this thing is fast and its got ac so its hard to imagine going back.


Unfortunately there are a lot of 356's out there that are not properly sorted out and don't drive well at all which is usually the case when someone says this. It's a shame because when they are set up as intended the driving experience is as great as they look.

We get really good looking 356's into my shop that drive like cr*p but look like a million bucks. Once everything is correctly adjusted, sorted and repaired the difference is amazing.

Congrats on your Cayman, great choice of a Porsche. Hopefully you will still get to drive a good 356 to know what it's like!
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RolandD
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a 356 one chunk at a time Reply with quote

OK, call me stupid. I have put 300,000 miles on a 63 beetle, and do not know what would make it something bad as compared to a 356.. The suspensions look very similar, tire size looks very similar, and with a EFI 1600cc , engines very similar(1600 Normal).

So what do you see typically wrong with the ill mannered Beauty Queens?

Crazy Roland
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a 356 one chunk at a time Reply with quote

Beetle handling in some ways is prefered. But Not going any real speed! Beetles not so bad with big tires in the back! Or even a good set of radials and Koni or Bilsteins.
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Sebastian Gaeta
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a 356 one chunk at a time Reply with quote

RolandD wrote:
OK, call me stupid. I have put 300,000 miles on a 63 beetle, and do not know what would make it something bad as compared to a 356.. The suspensions look very similar, tire size looks very similar, and with a EFI 1600cc , engines very similar(1600 Normal).

So what do you see typically wrong with the ill mannered Beauty Queens?

Crazy Roland


You may have taken my comments a little out of context. I would never say a VW is bad, nor did I in my post, and I would also never call you stupid.

I have continuously owned air cooled VW's and 356's for over 30 years now. I love them both but am also realistic about the differences. You are correct in that they are the same basic design but the fact is that very few parts interchange. The VW was built to a price point but still needed to be rugged, reliable and inexpensive transportation. The design is downright brilliant.

The 356 had a bigger budget so the materials and components are much more robust. The seats are bigger and more comfortable for long rides, the steering box is beefier and much more precise, brake components are much bigger for better stopping, all of the switches and everything you touch are of much higher quality, the center of gravity is also much lower giving the 356 better handling. The doors close with a pronounced "thunk" vs the tinny sound when I close my VW's doors. There is virtually nothing on the 356 that is not more robust than on the VW and there is no rational argument against that, it's just a material fact. Doesn't make either car more or less desirable, it just is what it is.

And it does not mean I don't love my VW's just as much because I do, I am just personally familiar the differences, that's all.

As for what we see typically wrong with some 356's when they come in? I have a story from a couple of years ago that would give you a little idea. A fellow from Flint drove down to attend one of my Saturday Porsche social open houses and asked if I would drive his 356B and give him my opinion. He had owned the car for years and was taking it to a local, well meaning shop that did not ordinarily work on Porsches. It was a pretty clean and good looking car but was way down on power, there was a bad gas smell inside the car, the shifter was a guessing game as to what gear you were going into, steering was vague, the brakes went mostly to the floor (but as an added benefit pulled violently to the left), the horn cuff was vulcanized so the horn would not work, clutch was shuddering and the entire car was basically out of adjustment. Whatever can be adjusted on a 356, let's just say nothing was where it needed to be on this car.

I asked him how he thought it drove and he replied "not bad for an old car". I asked him how he dealt with the braking issue and he said he just planned ahead at stops and made sure that he had a plan in place to bail one way or the other based on whatever was ahead of him!

I gave him one of our loaner cars and told him to leave it with me for a week or two.

We....Adjusted his throttle linkage (it was only at about 60% of full travel), rebushed the shifter, replaced a flexible fuel line in the bulkhead, adjusted the steering box, aligned the car, redid the brakes including all new parts, new rubber hoses and arcing the new shoes to the drums, new horn cuff, adjusted the clutch and installed a gas pedal stop, did an oil service and valve adjustment and fiddled with probably about ten other 356 specific things to get the car right. When he came down to pick it up I could not have been happier to watch a longtime 356 owner driving a 356 as it should be for the first time. He could not believe it was the same car and we really didn't do anything major, we just just dialed it in with some 356 specific adjustments and put everything back to spec.

These cars have survived pretty well and in the last 20 years many have been brought back to life. That means there are many out there that are not sorted out correctly even though they may look like a show winner. It's those cars that usually elicit the "meh" response when someone drives that particular 356 for the 1st time. I have never had someone drive one, or even ride in one that is properly sorted out and not say "Wow"!
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'64 356C cabriolet Signalrot
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'67 Karmann Ghia convertible Heliosblau
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RolandD
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a 356 one chunk at a time Reply with quote

Thank you for your reply. No worries, If I say/do something stupid, please be blunt and inform me as such.

From your reply, it seems that being "sorted out" is alot more important than whether it is a beetle or a 356. Yes, the 356 has better brakes, and from the factory more horsepower, and a lower center of gravity. I am working on a 1957 356A, which appears much more similar than the later C's with their discs and higher HP.

I guess I will just have to finish the care and find out for my self what kind of soul it has.

Crazy Roland

P.S. For a while I had a 1500 compounded turbo diesel rabbit engine in the bug. About 120 H.P. and 180 ft.lbs of torque at 37 p.s.i. boost. Durn speedo kept cutting out , he he he
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a 356 one chunk at a time Reply with quote

I always liked the way they handle at about 80 MPH Only 4000 rpm and they will do it all day long.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:04 am    Post subject: Re: Building a 356 one chunk at a time Reply with quote

RolandD wrote:
Thank you for your reply. No worries, If I say/do something stupid, please be blunt and inform me as such.

From your reply, it seems that being "sorted out" is alot more important than whether it is a beetle or a 356. Yes, the 356 has better brakes, and from the factory more horsepower, and a lower center of gravity. I am working on a 1957 356A, which appears much more similar than the later C's with their discs and higher HP.

I guess I will just have to finish the care and find out for my self what kind of soul it has.

Crazy Roland


Roland, That's great that you are working on a '57, they are really beautiful cars and once done you will see what I am talking about. It does not have more to do with being sorted out than whether it's a 356 or a Beetle. There is definitely a difference in overall feel with the 356 and the examples I gave of what's beefier and more substantial are not the only things that makes them different. Putting a powerful engine and bigger brakes in a Beetle does not make it an equal to the 356 in overall performance and feel. If that were true all of those racers from 60 years ago would have saved themselves a ton of money and just done that to a VW instead of going to the track in a 356.

I am lucky enough to be a shop owner and all of my cars, VW and Porsche, are properly sorted out and adjusted and there is most definitely a difference between the cars. But as I have said, I love my VW's just as much.

I would love to give you some tips with getting the '57 sorted if you'd like, just contact me any time. I have no doubt you know what you are doing but there are more than a few 356 specific items that once done right, stay right for a long time and really add to the driving experience.
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'63 Beetle Turkis
‘64 Karmann Ghia Coupe Manilagelb/Black Roof
'64 356C cabriolet Signalrot
'65 356C coupe Rubinrot
'66 Single Cab Velvet Green
'67 Karmann Ghia convertible Heliosblau
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RolandD
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a 356 one chunk at a time Reply with quote

Offer acepted. As Dirty Harry" would say "A man has got to know his limitations". There is a pond between us, but I need an excuse to take th e ferry.

Roland
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neilb
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:11 am    Post subject: Re: Building a 356 one chunk at a time Reply with quote

Bulli Klinik wrote:
From your posts on AMS, you would definitely know!

Neil, if you had to build yours again, would you start with an actual car? I think I would prefer to start with a stack of steel and aluminum.


i know it's an old thread, sorry it's been a while since i was on here (i'm a busy lad)

good question, either would be my answer. you need parts to gap the adjacent panels. you need an engine lid to gap the tail panel and 1/4 panels, doors to gap the 1/4 panels and front fenders. front hood to gap the nose panel and fenders and so on and so on.

seems like a daunting task but it could be done, so you start with some doors build a jig to hold the doors, and go from there. you can buy every panel now not like when i started lol
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