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Help Me Pick My New Engine
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Which Engine?
Another TDI?
16%
 16%  [ 4 ]
Some other VAG gas engine (make suggestion)
12%
 12%  [ 3 ]
"Subaru the Hell of it!"
70%
 70%  [ 17 ]
Total Votes : 24

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vwwestyman
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:53 am    Post subject: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

As you may have seen, my TDI engine has died. Again... This conversion has now had 3 engines in it, plus a rebuilt head on one of those engines. And two rebuilt transmissions, all since 2013.

Considering going a different direction.

Here's what I'm thinking about, and what I see as pros/cons. I'd love to hear your thoughts on all this. Going back to an aircooled motor is essentially out of the question for a variety of reasons.

Throw in another TDI motor.

Pro: everything is set up and it would quite literally bolt right in and the wires would plug right in. And the transmission is geared for it. Would be the quickest and easiest way to get an engine in there and get it driving again.

Con: While theoretically the new transmission is stronger, at this point I don't know if it'll be possible for me to drive without always being on edge. Always worrying about the diesel engine pounding on the transmission. Plus it has been annoyingly loud. And all the ancillary things ( e.g. the intercooler setup) were more complicated than I figured and still aren't "right."


Some VAG gas engine.

Pro: Just about any of them would bolt right in, also. Theoretically it should be less worrisome with regards to smoothness and transmission pounding. Something like a late 90s 2.0 would be fairly easy to get in there and get the wiring set up. A non-turbo motor would require less extra "stuff" to get running. Seems like it would be quieter than a TDI motor.

Con: The current transmission gearing may not match one of these motors; they typically want to rev up a bit more. Other wiring changes to go from diesel to gas. Potentially less torque/power. If I wanted something like a 1.8T, I'd still have to worry about things like the intercooler system.

A Subaru motor.

Pro: Plenty of people have done it. They at least appear to be clean and simple when comparing to my TDI. Everybody says they have good power. Like a VAG gasser, less worry about pounding on the transmission. Some of my current work would still transfer, such as cooling system and heater system. Maybe I can sell some of the Mexican Bus stuff I used. (See con section.) Should also be quieter than TDI.

Con: Biggest one I see is a lot of the current work doesn't transfer as much. E.g. I'd probably have to swap the old bellhousing and associated parts back on, as it's probably easier to find adapter plates and such for the stock bus transmission. (Could possibly sell the Mexican stuff.) I also am not sure about how well the current trans gearing will work. I don't yet "speak" Subaru.
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Last edited by vwwestyman on Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:56 am; edited 2 times in total
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vwwestyman
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

Current transmission specs, including a 4.13 ring and pinion and super diff:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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consvws
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:37 am    Post subject: Re: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

Maybe ask around over in this forum
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewforum.php?f=43
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TDCTDI
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

If you decide to go Subaru, I’d be able interested in the trans… and I gots a new Small Car Subaru header & throttle linkage conversion bits.
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richparker
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

What’s your budget?
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cmonSTART
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

2JZ

Shocked
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

vwwestyman wrote:
As you may have seen, my TDI engine has died. Again... This conversion has now had 3 engines in it, plus a rebuilt head on one of those engines. And two rebuilt transmissions, all since 2013.


what's the definition of insanity? doing the same thing over and expecting different results....

either you have the worst luck in the world or you and TDI's don't get along.

honestly, only you can answer this question. i didn't run the math but i'm willing to bet your trans will hate anything not TDI and the gearing will be very poor at best.

if you do away with the diesel you need another trans, no doubt. so it really comes down to how much you want to recycle into a VAG gasser.

doing anything from the 80's-90's VAG line up will give you blah performance. even an ABA is only 115 horse. not worth it.

2.5 subaru is 165/170 out of the gate. fits and are plentiful.

not sure what MPG's you are chasing but this is from a guy i did a swap for:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


granted, his is a tin top and he drives like an old lady (even his wife busts his balls about it Laughing )

they usually ride heavy, as they camp in it.

my experience has been 22-24 mpg no matter how i drive mine....which is usually with my foot buried to the floor because it's fun to drive a slow car fast.

i have a good friend in NM who is forever dicking with his TDI in his vanagon. they just seem to be needy little bitches but somehow people justify that and the expense.

sounds to me like you have some soul searching to do.
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my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
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crownline
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

"As you may have seen, my TDI engine has died. Again... This conversion has now had 3 engines in it"

Your above quote says it all. You could try for 4 TDI engines.
My vote is listen to skillz "Subaru and be done."
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Xevin Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

In your bus. Whatever fits your budget, gets you rolling, and doesn’t take away from family time.
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vwwestyman
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:11 am    Post subject: Re: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

I'll try to address several comments.

I think I'm leaning toward Subaru as of this moment. Even if I *should* be able to make a TDI engine work, Skills was dead on with the definition of crazy comment. If nothing else, it does feel crazy to try to keep going on the TDI train.

Just yesterday I was at a car show and talked to someone I hadn't seen in a few years. He asked about the TDI bus and said I'd maybe inspired him! Has a Bus that needs an engine and his nice 2002 Golf was obliterated by baseball size hail this past spring. I told him that it does seem like one should be able to be made to work, but at this point I think I'm kinda traumatized by the whole thing. Even when that thing was running well, I was always eyeing the gauges and worrying about my transmission.

By contrast, we drove the '73 (with AC Vanagon engine, 091 trans, and late bay FI) to the car show and took the interstate there. That thing drove 70-75 no problem and felt kind of relaxing.

Some of the difficulties with this conversion are certainly related to mistakes I made (and could have been prevented) and some is bad luck.

The only real reason for considering a gasser VAG engine would be easy bolt-in. After seeing Skills comment, I looked up the specs for an ABA... The torques are quite a bit lower than the TDI, and at much higher RPMS. So I think that is out.

If I were to run across another TDI motor fairly easily/a good deal I'd probably go ahead and do that simply because of the ability to swap it in with as little difficulty possible.

Otherwise, I think I'm interested in trying a Subaru out. I've already figured that whenever the engine in the '73 wears out, it would probably get a Subaru.

But whatever I get, it'll probably be a while. Gotta save up the cash for the new engine.
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vwwestyman
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

Skills-

What gearing do you typically recommend when having a transmission built for a Subaru?
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

i'll have to look

i was having benco do my first 5 or so transmissions but found matt steedle who is in NJ, so way closer

benco was doing a taller 3+4 which i liked, but matt ran some numbers and came up with a totally different R+P that equalized the gear spread.

i like both, for different reasons.

with the taller 3+4 it is more fun to drive and 3rd is used pretty much around town. i can run 3rd up to 85/90 before i shift to 4th

matts trans is kind of the same, but with the R+P the gear spread is a bit better, you can run ALL of the gears longer.

the benco trans is like having a close ration GTI trans for the first few gears. in the end, both of them cruise at the same RPM's on the highway
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my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

If you want to run a more modern engine, I think you will have to go thru the whole conversion again, re-engineering the weak spots that have failed on you, if you want to avoid having the same failures again. Try to go with a zero mile engine if you can rather than a high mileage one.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

Whatever gets you back on the road fastest. Time spent with kids in Bus is added to the Creators’ allotted end time
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
i'll have to look

i was having benco do my first 5 or so transmissions but found matt steedle who is in NJ, so way closer

benco was doing a taller 3+4 which i liked, but matt ran some numbers and came up with a totally different R+P that equalized the gear spread.

i like both, for different reasons.

with the taller 3+4 it is more fun to drive and 3rd is used pretty much around town. i can run 3rd up to 85/90 before i shift to 4th

matts trans is kind of the same, but with the R+P the gear spread is a bit better, you can run ALL of the gears longer.

the benco trans is like having a close ration GTI trans for the first few gears. in the end, both of them cruise at the same RPM's on the highway


If you could check when you get a chance, I'd appreciate it.

Far as I know, there are only two R/Ps out there, stock and 4.13, which I have.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

4.13, 4.57, 4.86

https://weddleindustries.com/products/ring-pinion-sets?field_transaxle_type_target_id=1000356

There are also different gear ratios in 3rd and 4th that Weddle sells.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
i'll have to look

i was having benco do my first 5 or so transmissions but found matt steedle who is in NJ, so way closer

benco was doing a taller 3+4 which i liked, but matt ran some numbers and came up with a totally different R+P that equalized the gear spread.

i like both, for different reasons.

with the taller 3+4 it is more fun to drive and 3rd is used pretty much around town. i can run 3rd up to 85/90 before i shift to 4th

matts trans is kind of the same, but with the R+P the gear spread is a bit better, you can run ALL of the gears longer.

the benco trans is like having a close ration GTI trans for the first few gears. in the end, both of them cruise at the same RPM's on the highway


Isn’t this how it should be done? It’s how Arizona Transaxle does it and the way I learned.
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

it should be done to match the torque curve of your engine.

a subaru likes 3-3200 rpm @72-75 mph

an aircooled needs more to keep the fan speed up. you'd be at 4-4200 at those speeds in an aircooled

i did my 70 with a stock 091 and in 4th on the highway i kept looking for 5th. no need to keep the subaru on boil like that.

also consider your tire size. makes a big difference on which way to go
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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Cap10323
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

IMO, If you're not going with a Type 4 Aircooled, Subaru is the only solution.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: Help Me Pick My New Engine Reply with quote

There is another option: Go electric
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