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Lingwendil
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Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76897
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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ralf
Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2008
Posts: 1215
Location: r4
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 Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Lingwendil's 1776 build thread |
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haven't posted in a long while
but ive been following this build thread of yours, loving the odds n ends of it
plus a cam that Alstrup got me thinkin' of , the cb2239 gets me curious how much you would enjoy em' 
keep it up man! Glenn showed a ballin' way of locking it
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Flow Through a Curved Conduit
porting my SP head for my brother's project
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Lingwendil's 1776 build thread |
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I can say that this engine is way more strong than any other 1776 and most 1835s I've ever driven. I'm not attributing it solely to the cam, but the tight deck, compression ratio, and 37mm intakes sure work well together with it for sure. Idles better than I would have hoped for, too. It does not have that miss-bang-bang-miss idle staccato that kadrons usually are known for.
I just want to figure out what's causing the super high oil pressure before I focus on too much else.
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73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!
Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884
Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087! |
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ralf
Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2008
Posts: 1215
Location: r4
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:43 am Post subject: Re: Lingwendil's 1776 build thread |
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| Lingwendil wrote: |
I can say that this engine is way more strong than any other 1776 and most 1835s I've ever driven. I'm not attributing it solely to the cam, but the tight deck, compression ratio, and 37mm intakes sure work well together with it for sure. Idles better than I would have hoped for, too. It does not have that miss-bang-bang-miss idle staccato that kadrons usually are known for.
I just want to figure out what's causing the super high oil pressure before I focus on too much else. |
i agree on the tight-deck,comp ratio etc all were what Alstrup put me on aware, funny u say that on kads. I did my dad's 1600dp all stock aside from a ported 113 casting head i did, empi extractor and kads. I did it with roughly 0.038-0.040" deck and runs fine no slight miss on idle or anything. Looks like most who say that about idle reference it off the (low comp) analogy
havnt paid attention but if your oil pressures are high even after warm up? if you remember the clearances you shot for (main and rod bearings) if its anywhere from 0.0015-0.0019" mains? then thats as tight as a modern honda engine. which likes no thicker than w30 oil.
but before that, have you considered where you check your oil pressure from? if the sensor is viable to be tested on a diff location to see if pressures remain the same? thats worth giving a shot
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Flow Through a Curved Conduit
porting my SP head for my brother's project
https://youtu.be/OS_mVjQuqgk |
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Alstrup
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7210
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:32 am Post subject: Re: Lingwendil's 1776 build thread |
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| Lingwendil wrote: |
One big issue, however. Oil pressure at idle can go as far as 60PSI, and it drops to 20 or so once revved, with it tracking engine RPM fairly accurately, 25PSI at 2500RPM, 35-40PSI at 3500RPM, etc. This definitely does not seem normal to me. Does it sound like a stuck or stiff/too strong relief valve? I really don't want to hurt this engine. This is reading off of the VDO gauge that also has its sender located on the remote oil filter adapter. As the sender is in the feed to the filter is this just the restriction of the filter showing backpressure? |
I have never taken the oil pressure signal in that position, so I can´t say for sure how that responds. However, I would block that thread and (atleast temporarily) take the signal from the factory pressure switch location to see if it mimics what you see at the filter.
In genaeral I feel that your pressure is a tad low. 25 psi @ 2500 rpm is sufficient, but a tad low. I like 30. 40 psi @ 4000 & up is supposidly also sufficient according to some, but again, I feel its a little on the low side.
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7537
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Lingwendil's 1776 build thread |
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Nice to hear you got there.
It's always a bunch of little details to suss with these things.
Your 1776 is almost the same as mine, including the Torben input,
Which I'll also say allowed me to build a much more powerful 1776 than ever before.
Having the vacuum port working makes a big difference.
Let me know if you want to sell that bus distributor - i love those.
Ah, your story takes me back - waiting at the Castro train station in the VMV - loading my bike to ride from the train station at 4th and King..
The commute from MV to SF is no joke, my man. A little distance looking at a map, but a long day by the time you're home.
I also never heard of anyone taking pressure readings off the filter adaptor.
You sure you're not sposeta be putting the temp sender there? 
Glue the valve cover gaskets to the cover, dry to the head.
i use Dirko, but any old RTV will work.
I like the AJ method of raising the air filter lids.
He uses two pieces of threaded rod to go up clear thru 2 holes in the lid.
That way you can drill the wing nuts and run a spring or wire between them to keep the nuts from backing off.
Glad to hear you're getting there.
At least you don't have an early car like mine.
Not only do the exhaust and carbs have to come off in order to pull the motor,
But the fan shroud and oil lines too! 
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Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Lingwendil's 1776 build thread |
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I think that Thanks to Torben and Brian E i now have the best possible engine that I possibly could have put together, for sure. I'm so glad that I took my time and tried not to hurry, even if life did slow me down it was absolutely worth the wait. I can't get over how pleased I am with how it drives. Only improvement I can make at this point is for sure ignition, and maybe IDF clones later on.
Just gotta figure out the oil pressure situation.
The setup I went with for the sending units is done up like this-
I put the sending units in the extra inlet/outlet ports on the remote adapter. Temperature at the inlet, pressure at the outlet.
Temperature tracks as expected and never goes over 200 even after a haaaard freeway pull at 80MPH, but the pressure goes up at idle. After driving the car some more I have found that the pressure is actually tracking rather linearly throughout the rev range, a little over 10PSI for each thousand RPM, never going under 20PSI until the car drops to idle, where it creeps up to 60PSI or so. I'm thinking i will try a different spring and plunger in the releif port.
You want that bus 205S SVDA? I could be persuaded to sell it for a decent price, shoot me an offer if interested. 
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!
Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884
Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087! |
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boxer74
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2011
Posts: 703
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Lingwendil's 1776 build thread |
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Looks like you have more clearance to the body from your passenger side carb than in my 74. I was finding it would rub when out driving and made a terrible noise. I ended up switching to the 'pod' style filters which are much smaller and likely not good enough airflow for a 1776 or higher. What air cleaners are you using?
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74 Super
84 Westy |
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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boxer74
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2011
Posts: 703
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Lingwendil's 1776 build thread |
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| Lingwendil wrote: |
These are the same EMPI ones everyone sells, on EMPI aluminum manifolds. There was more room on the drivers side with the steel manifolds, as they sat a little lower and closer to the fan shroud.
Getting your hand back there is not fun at all with these manifolds! |
I may have to do one or more of the following:
- Keep using pod style
- Cut back nipple on side of fan shroud that used to connect to charcoal canister
- Remove side tar boards
Though they are pricey, I wonder how the Vintage Speed air cleaners fit:
https://store.vintagespeed.com.tw/CLASSIC-STYLE-OV...p132724228
Just can't justify the cost.
The 'old school' air cleaners from Kaddie Shack which are powder coated in different colours and include the mesh screen also look cool and can be ordered with the 'high-flow' mod for the bracket. Apparently these are about 1/4" shorter. Not sure if that would help clearance at all.
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84 Westy
Last edited by boxer74 on Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lingwendil
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Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Lingwendil's 1776 build thread |
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Drove it some more last night, maybe an hour or so.
The EMPI trigger shifter has been removed, it was heavy and... imprecise? I could not adjust it enough to reliably find 1st or 2nd gear unless you were parked. It was nearly impossible to downshift from 3rd to 2nd. It'll be up for sale cheap soon! I put the stock one back in, and the cheap cast aluminum quick shift kit. I eyeballed the position, bolted it loosely, shifted through all the gears and snugged it down. Much lighter feel, and perfect shifts in all situations. I just wish it was a little higher off the ground/closer to the steering wheel, and came back a little bit further. I may find an early shifter and notch the rod to accomodate it. I had a stock shifter that i bent back further on my 61 and found it perfect.
Developed a slight problem where the tin behind the pulley rubs the pulley ever so slightly, gonna pull the pulley and lightly tap the tin for clearance to prevent any more rubbing. I had to kind of manhandle the engine when I put it in and it must have shifted.
Carbs are doing great, just need a better sync, and seem to be a bit rich. I am not currently running a balance tube, nor do I feel the need to. These carbs run better than I've ever seen other Kads run. Not IDF territory idle, but very clean.
Ignition feels like it could be improved with the current beater Bosch Blue coil, which I'm not terribly fond of. Currently running the surprisingly nice quality Type 3 wires made by Duralast. Dug out my Taylor wires, MSD 7AL, Daytona TCS-1, and the MSD blaster coil. I'm going to figure out mounting of the ignition boxes (behind the back seat, most likely) and then run the wires for them. I'm not sure I want to run the MSD coil long term, so I'll keep an eye out for something hotter. Maybe a TFI coil from a Ford? Not sure.
I plan to make a separate post for the TCS-1 once I have it mounted. It seems to be a pretty interesting module.
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!
Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884
Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087! |
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Rome
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Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9640
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Lingwendil's 1776 build thread |
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| Quote: |
| I just wish it was a little higher off the ground |
How about finding a BUS shifter to start with? Then you can saw off the extra height, thread the exposed rod for your shift knob, apply torch heat to the base of the shifter to make a bend, and still use your short-shift kit. I don't know if the bottom ball of a bus shifter fits into a Beetle shift rod cup, but easy to find out in one of the bus forums (bay window?) per search. |
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boxer74
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2011
Posts: 703
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Lingwendil's 1776 build thread |
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How is the car running?
I'm about to fire my 1776 up tomorrow night hopefully for a tune. Same cam, carbs, CR and exhaust as you. Really the only difference are heads (mine are AA500) and ignition (mine is CB Magnaspark II kit). I had it running previously with a single 40 IDF. Needless to say, that was a pain in the ass and I quickly pulled it off.
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Lingwendil's 1776 build thread |
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Prepare yourself for a big wall-o-text
Well, I have been driving it a good bit lately, at least 20-30 minutes per trip, maybe 30-40 miles all in each weekend, and at least a 15-20 minute freeway run nightly after work. Ensure that I do lots of downshifting, and let the oil get hot. It does seem to take a good bit of work to warm up the oil- I rarely see more than 160 on the oil temp gauge unless you hit the freeway for more than fifteen minutes or so.
Saturday morning I put new tires on it, and went 185/65 on all four corners, rather than the staggered 175/65 front, 205/65 rear I previously ran on it, now that I have the added rear sway bar, stiffer shocks, etc. The car feels much better balanced for grip now, and looks a bit cleaner with the level stance rather than the rake it had before. Freeway stability has improved a bit too, which is important around here, as we have a consistent heavy crosswind all over the freeways and bridges out here. I have a reproduction Kamei type front spoiler to put on at some point as well.
Speedometer cable snapped last weekend, but I need to pull it out to clean and re-lube the internal gears, as well as replace the nylon odometer drive gear in it, as it only counts miles sometimes, and then stops for a day or two. From previous experience the gear is cracked or slipping on the shaft, so I picked up a replacement on ebay from Aircoolin.
The engine is running well, although when fully warm the synch goes off a bit, raising the idle from ~900 to about 1400. Need to check out the linkage, and maybe rotate the carbs on the manifolds a smidge to see if that keeps them expanding at the same angle. It did at first have a rather rich idle, and it would not lean out enough without running rather poorly. I know the idles aren't too big at 55, so hopefully its just getting it dialed in. Still can't find my synch snail.
Driving around town I find that it seems to have a little sluggish spot right at transition it feels- Almost like a lean spot as the mains kick in. With the 30mm vents I have a feeling I'm a bit on the lean side, I'm almost thinking I should hop up from currently installed 137.5 to maybe 140? I have 140s as well. Hmmmm. Assuming I actually remembered to install the 137.5 mains I had ordered at carb rebuild time 
I also have the clone IDFs on hand that I need to grind the manifiolds to fit. They are too thick at the mounting base to fit into the opening in the cylinder head tin without some work. I'm not in a hurry to install them, but may order some 30mm vents for them first.
The car is very responsive to your driving style- and can be driven fairly aggressively. It revs so quickly under load that the gearing almost feels too short- It's as if first gear is over as soon as it begins. It makes the car not necessarily touchy, but the torque curve feels very linear up until the nice wide sweet spot- very responsive and a great match to my driving style. I tend to be very quick at running around corners, maneuvering for lane changes, long sweeping freeway onramps, etc. so the way the car hugs the curves tightly and then slingshots its way out of them so smoothly and nimbly is really, really enjoyable. 
Speaking of nimble cornering ability and driving style, I ordered Corbeau seat brackets for the car. They came in this last week, and I'll fit them soon to take measurements for seats soon. The number one change I feel this car needs are more supportive seats. You need to brace yourself when hitting the turns hard to stay planted in the car. 
Current suspension setup-
Stock 4.5J steelwheels with hubcaps, 185/65R15 tires
Front-
Two notches down on Empi struts, KYB Excel-G cartridges, red sport springs
7/8" Topline front sway bar
Red urethane bushings all around
strut tower brace
Rear-
3/4" rear bar
KYB excel-G rear shocks
I almost think that I could go to a softer rear shock now that i have the sway bar in the rear. I may swap in some Monroes I have just to see how it feels.
Stance is nearly level, accounting for the 48 years of sag in the rear, and I need to replace the spring plate bushings at some point.
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73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!
Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884
Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087! |
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boxer74
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2011
Posts: 703
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Lingwendil's 1776 build thread |
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| Lingwendil wrote: |
| I also have the clone IDFs... I'm not in a hurry to install them. |
Don't. Keep the Kads!
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84 Westy |
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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boxer74
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2011
Posts: 703
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Lingwendil's 1776 build thread |
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| Lingwendil wrote: |
Oh, i'll keep them, for sure. I just want to finally have some IDF type carbs again. It'll be a smidge better, but still better.
I love Kadrons, I'm not giving up on them. They'll at least get kept for the next project. |
I tried a single IDF and hated it. Really should have tried duals, but the Kads are fine for me. The single with manifold will be up for sale soon.
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Lingwendil's 1776 build thread |
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You couldn't get me to run a single even if you gave me one ready to go. Duals, however
Well, other than a good sorted stock carb, or maybe a Zenith on the right manifold, with functional preheat...
My last personal car that ran IDFs on was 44IDFs on an 1835. It was great, and could land over 30MPG easily. Butter smooth when dialed in, even if not a huge difference over Kadrons it's still a nice improvement at the bottom end of the RPM range. Forget the cam but it had to have been fairly high lift.
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73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!
Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884
Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087! |
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