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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

I got it out OK and chased the threads on the bolt and the hole.

Used some KanoKroil and let it soak a bit, then with the right sized 13mm in 1/2inch wrench size, it came out fairly easy.
(AND I found my 13mm hex socket! Very Happy )

And Thanks again for the info and the color confirm on that reservoir plate Gary.

If I can get all the surfaces treated with rust converter, then primed and painted I can start re-assembly, probably tomorrow or Friday I hope.

T
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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

Hey Folks,

Still cleaning and painting.

Pulled the drivers seat, Pulled the front to rear brake line, Pulled the rear brake lines and hoses but I found a VW surprise I wasn't expecting.

The brake hard line that goes from driver over the transmission to passenger side...there's a clip that appears it's tack welded to the frame like it was a complete assembly installed before the engine & trans were.

Wasn't sure if that clip was just cupping it to hold in place, but it looks like it's encircling the line like a loop.
Which probably means It isn't coming out without cutting the metal line, fabbing a new one, feeding it thru that clip and flaring the other end.

Am I correct here with what I'm seeing?

That line isn't leaking, just figured I'd replace them all while I was at it, mulling leaving that one alone and just replace from the brass T's to each wheel.

Any suggestions on if that really is a looped clip?
I had a heck of a time even getting a photo of it, it's really in a tight spot.

Would yall cut it and make one and maybe just bypass that clip?

I have a flaring kit but trying to do that under the THING by hand...not sure I can pull that one off right the first time.
But, I'd probably have more room on on the driver side to do a flare...

If I bypassed that clip, I could use the clip and wire tie the line to it maybe, not sure there, plastic gets brittle, using metal mechanics wire, it'd rust and maybe cause a rub spot...

ugg!

I bought a brake line kit so I wouldn't have to flare brake lines as it's kind of a PITA and the tools I have work but it's better in a vise when using it.

Well, I'll mock up the passenger side rubber hose and bend the metal line, already did the drivers rear and check back for any suggestions.

This is turning into a major project, good thing I was off this week! lol
Thanks for any help,
T

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
[/img]
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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

Still going at it.
I went and bent a brake line for that rear crossover line, got it installed.
Left the old one in place for now, probably have to cut it out due to that loop/strap holding it, but everything's still loose at the moment.

Waiting on things to dry before I can put in the long line from MC to rear Then hopefully I can bench bleed the MC and install it.

Those rear "T" fittings work so much better when it's all loose you can adjust the lines as needed.
Pulled the small bolts holding them and anti seized them for install.
Trying to undo the lines I was bending the tab holding the brass T, had to use an adjustable wrench to hold the T to undo the brake lines, they were super tight.

Pulled the clutch cable, accelerator cable and tube and the bowden tube.
Replaced the oval pan gasket where the tubes leave the pan.

Probably will replace most of this stuff while i'm here, although the clutch cable and accel cable looked fine just dirty/greasy, unknown age on them.

Well got to order a few more items, i'll probably be another week the way this is going.
But it's probably good preventative maintenance.

T


EDIT:
Here's a borrowed photo that better shows that Tab I'm referring too.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:58 am    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

Hey Folks, another update.

(feel like a broken record here) but still painting and cleaning as I work on all of this brake system, pedals, MC stuff.

Got all the rear brake lines snugged down, next up is the front lines, the MC bleed, reservoir install, etc.

I got my order in Friday so I started mucking with the clutch cable and the accel cable a little bit, I've never installed these before and my THING was missing the Clutch tube seal.

Well as you may can tell from the photo, the threaded end of the clutch cable ain't going thru that tiny hole (the accelerator cable fit it though) to give an idea of the size there.

Well, I pulled out my drill bit kit and ran a few drill bits thru it gently as I could and managed to work the opening just large enough I think I can get the threaded part thru and it's snug enough to still work as a seal.

It was "so tight" before I started that I never got it to fit and if I had, i'd have to cut it off with a razor, it was that bad. In fact once I did get it on I couldnt get it off, the seal rolled over on itself like a condom I had a hel of a time getting it back off and not be "inside out".

Wondered if this is the wrong part but I got it working now.
I was concerned it would pinch and hold the cable (it was that tight).

Started at 1/8 inch and went up to 15/64 size drill bit.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This photo was during the drill/ test fit process

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Another photo during the drill/test fit process

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This photo showed another style out there, so hope I got the right one.

Anyway still working on this so will update soon.

T
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mondshine
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

Just need some "Kentucky Jelly" to help push the threaded end through that small opening.
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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

Hey Gary,

yeah I tried with some wd40 but it was "so tight" - 'how tight was it?"
it was so tight I had to drill it! lol
That was a delicate job trying to hold that little rubber thing and drill it without drilling my fingers or ruining it.

I managed to work it open enough that I got the threaded part thru still with some difficulty so it should still work as a seal I hope. Previously I didn't have one.

I'm on hold again till the weekend, next up is MC bleed, install, pedal install and adjustments and leak checks.

T
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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:12 am    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

Status update:

Well after much struggling I managed to get all the brake lines tightened,
Got the rebuilt pedal cluster in
Got the M/C Reservoir installed
Got the Brake light harness replaced and installed.

Had to make a few tweaks to the "pistol wheel" accelerator,

After installing a new accelerator cable it was "this much" |___| too short.
Bout a 1/4 inch.
I had to work on the pedal's resting tab a bit with a file, so it rocked a bit more towards the driver seat.
I ended up having to re-drill the accel cable's mounting hole back a bit and FINALLY got it installed and it works, the carb goes full throttle when floored and will close when you let off now.

After all that i was wore out this weekend so next up is re-adjust the rear brakes and add fluid and
leak check.

Fingers crossed!



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Made this little contraption, it seems to hold enough pressure that it should work to force bleed
the brakes.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Got the pedals installed, still need to tweak the brake line more flat.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Got the tip of the throttle cable right at the end of the clamp and it's just enough to work (it was " " that close)
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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

Well didn't get much done today but did work on the clutch cable/pedal adjustment.

Dern clutch cable is a bit too long, Ended up having to add 4 washers to the bowden tube and it helped but I may need to clip about (well no more than 1 inch) off the threaded cable end, as it's almost hitting the engine fan shroud when the clutch pedal is up.
The 4 washers helped but i probably could go 5 or 6 to have some future cable adjustment for when it stretches.

Of course adding washers has eliminated the room for the seal to fit on then end now! well it's on there with 4 washers but any more there wont be enough of the bowden tube sticking out for the seal to fit on.

I don't know if the seal would fit in the the clamp on the transmission if you tried to put the bowden tube with the seal on, thru that clamp.

I'll keep at it till it get it but dang!

T
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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

Here is a pic of the installed new clutch cable, the 4 added washers and the clutch dust boot hanging on for dear life!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The cable is just too long (haven't measured how much too long yet) but
it's adjusted for about 3/4 pedal free travel in this photo.
Or as you can see the extra threaded rod behind the wingnut,
almost 2 inches too long

I wont have much room for future cable adjustments.

Any suggestions or ideas here?

Its a brand new cable from the thing shop.
And before install it was identical in length to my old one.

When I measured the old cable It measured from total end of the clutch arm tip to the tip of the threaded rod end at 90 1/4 inch's
which is: 2292.35 mm

I can't add any more washers or I'd have to forgo using the rubber seal.

My old cable was probably having the same issue I remember the threaded rod end being so long it almost hits the fan shroud, but being this car doesn't get driven all that much probably didn't stretch all that much either.

I really dont want to have to remove the pedals for the 15th time but I'm here so I need to sort this out.

Would anyone have a good recommendation of a cable that may fit or should I go down the "shorten the cable route"?
did a bit of reading on this and it sounds like this has become a common replacement problem.

Well please let me know if anyone has a good idea here, but I'd think if I go with 3 of the 4 washers so the rubber seal fits, then measure
the extra threaded rod after I adjust the pedal free play, that extra threaded rod part would be my guess on how shorter the cable needs to be.

How in the He!! did I get here from a leaky M/C Question Rolling Eyes
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

https://www.thethingshop.com/CLUTCH-CABLE/productinfo/111721335C/

The clutch cable from the Thing shop is 1117211335C which measures 2281mm
https://www.appletreeauto.com/VW-CABLES/CLUTCH-CABLES/

Just order a shorter one. Part numbers and lengths are listed.

Get a cable extender for your accl cable too
https://www.appletreeauto.com/throttle-cable-extension-kit-for-braided-cable/
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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

Hey 74Thing

Thanks for the info, I actually was reading another fellows post where you were assisting on his clutch cable issue.

So I did a measurement on the extra threads behind the wingnut.

It's screwed down almost at the ends of the threads I maybe have 1/4inch more available threads to tighten and that's eyeballing it.

Behind the wingnut I've got 1 and 1/2 inch of threads.

That with the 4 washers on the bowden tube, (figured I'd pull 1) so the seal would fit better.

1 & 1/2in= 25.4mm+12.7mm =38.1 or (by my ruler it's 38mm)
removing 1 washer is about 1/16 = 1.59mm (2mm on my ruler)
that's total of 39.69mm or (by my ruler 40mm)

So what I have is roughly 40mm too long.

If the Thing shop's cable is 2281mm - 40mm= then the exact length would be 2241mm

Well, the closest to that measurement on appletree auto is this: >
SKU: 113-721-335A
Clutch Cable, For Beetle 62-71, Ghia 62-71 2260mm

Do ya think that sounds right Question

If I'm thinking correctly that should shorten the extra threads I have by 20mm (2cm), which should give me more room to adjust as time goes on.

2267mm was the next size up but that extra 7mm shouldn't really be needed if I'm calculating right.

And thanks on the mention on the accelerator cable extender, I pondered getting one and I may still just in case. I did seem to get it working but there's no extra cable at all, so that lil bit may just work.

Thanks a bunch!

T
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

I can confirm that I had to order the 113-721-335A part number to get a cable that wasn't too long for my 73.

I had ordered one from JBugs and it was too long (the cable was also longer than what it was listed as, after I provided pictures to show that, they sent another one that was the same length and were arguing with me that it wasn't too long). The part number above worked great (ordered from a different source).
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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

Hey Dougster43,

Thank you for confirming that part number.

Dang, sounds like you had fun with this too.

I know once I fix this I never want to do this again, I've become a pro at it by now though! Shocked

Did you remember where you purchased (pm me if you want).

Thanks a bunch for confirming!

T
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

Just re-posting this for future notes/research on Throttle Cable for the THING

Since my Throttle cable is a bit too short...

Kubelmann posted this in another link about the throttle cables, so I thought it'd be good reference:

Bug/Ghia throttle cables came stock in the following length
remember that the Thing is built on a Ghia based pan so it used the same length throttle cable for the same year Thing/Ghia
Bug/Ghia 58-66 2650 mm (104.33")
Bug/Ghia 66-71 2627 mm (103.43")
Bug Ghia 72 - 79 2642 mm (104")

SCAT performance throttle cable comes about 110" or around 2800 mm
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

Update;

Well I didn't get all my replacement cables in yet, but i did get the new accel cable so going to test fit that today.

Will I ever get to the brakes?
Lets hope so, this has dragged on a bit longer than I wanted but, gotta have something to do right? Laughing

Let me see how this goes and I'll report back.

I ordered a accel cable 2642 mm (104")
as the other 2 I have are either too short by 1/2inch or 8 feet too long!
The one that came with the pistol wheel is almost as long as my garage is, I guess it's for a sand rail application but I also got a cable shorter kit so that's plan c I think...

anyways after the coffee kicks in it's "on to the garage"!

T
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

Unfortunately I don't recall where I ordered the clutch cable from and I didn't see anything in my email. I might guess it was off of eBay. I know it wasn't from JBugs...
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:37 am    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

Dougster43 wrote:
Unfortunately I don't recall where I ordered the clutch cable from and I didn't see anything in my email. I might guess it was off of eBay. I know it wasn't from JBugs...


Hey Dougster43, that's ok I ordered one from Thingparts.com this time.

And my new accel cable fits perfectly, it measured 104 inches
(2641.6mm) end to end and it fit just right.

I also got brake fluid in Saturday and had to pull suction on the rears to get fluid, the fronts gravity bled pretty quickly and I managed (surprisingly) to get a good pedal and it didn't take as long as I thought.
At first I thought I had a air leak but so far no leaks found.

I tried the M/C cap with the air valve but it either didn't work due to air leaking or wasn't enough pressure. The cap was a bit flimsy plastic so it was unsure if this would work.

Well next up is the pedal removal AGAIN and the clutch cable reinstall AGAIN but hopefully this one will fit just right.

Also replaced my hood latch cable's guide tube the old one cracked a while back and installed a new pull handle too.
Added a few grommets to the main long run brake line as well.

Man, that 'super lube' clear/white grease made those grommets go in easy.

Makes me wonder, my front windshield gasket never did fit just right by the rear view mirror, it can leak in a hard rain, I've been told they are a tough fit and banging on it, eventually would go, but me banging on glass usually ends up in a mess, but I wonder if a bit of the super lube would make it all fit better? (That may be up on the list to do as well).

Well, waiting on parts again.


T
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

Over the weekend, I installed a residual valve (2 psi) on my rear brake line and wow what a difference! I have 4 wheel discs with the larger master cylinder. The brakes felt ok before, but after installing the residual valve the pedal feel is greatly improved as is the stopping power as the brakes are balanced out better.

I'd highly recommend it for anyone running 4 wheel discs.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

Well good news and bad news,

Good news: I got everything back together, got a good pedal, got the new clutch cable in and it's a perfect length.
Charged the battery, started the engine, that pistol wheel accel pedal feels pretty good.

Cleaned up the wheels and tires, air'd it all up for a test ride...

Then the Bad news: stripped a rear brake drum lug before I even put the torque wrench on it. Rolling Eyes

It was the bastard drum, it used larger lug bolts than the rest of the wheels.

So Rats! Evil or Very Mad

Now, I've heard/read some issues with brake drums for the THING,
seems the German one's are not cheap.

Any good alternatives for rear brake drums?
(that maybe aren't German or as expensive).

I may even look at a rear disc kit too but i'm ok with staying drums, it stopped fine before all this happened.

Thanks for any advice yall,

T
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: Disappearing Brake Fluid a new post Reply with quote

https://www.thingparts.com/search.php?search_query=drum&x=0&y=0
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