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Eurovan transmission struggles
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vazelinium
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:39 pm    Post subject: Eurovan transmission struggles Reply with quote

Hello people.
I'm new to posting on this forum but professional reader.
Looking for suggestions because I'm running out of options.

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So, one day 3 years ago out of nowhere while driving 40mph our favorite 01p decided to shift into parking. Of course planetary felt apart. My local transmission shop in Florida gladly agreed to rebuild it for very reasonable amount of money. After the rebuild everything was fine until speed sensor gave up. It affected shifting points but overall the van was drivable, transmission kept shifting and all. After a year of driving it like this I finally replaced the sensor. A few month after on a lovely morning I'm loosing the reverse, 10 miles later I lost all the gears. Called back to transmission shop and they rebuild it for the same little amount of money, but when they called me to notify that van is ready to be picked up they told me that they rebuilt all the mechanical part but there is electrical issue that prevents the transmission from shifting so they had their electrician check the wiring an he stated that TCM is bad and has to be replaced. So i picked up the van, took it back home and ordered Used TCM with the same part number.
TCM didn't help.
Here is picture of the transmission harness after "electrician" "Checked" the wiring:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm not goin to tell y'all that the shop sent me to F*ck myself since they do only mechanical work but not electrical and even with the 12month/12000miles warranty they not taking it back to repair properly.

I should describe the issue.
With tcm DISconnected, basically in limp mode operating manually, i have the reverse, 3rd and 1st.
with TCM connected i have reverse, 1st and second but it slips out of 3rd. Ill add the link with video.

Link




So what i have as for today.
1. Transmission harness repaired ant tested from TCM to all the components
2. TCM "repaired" by computer specialists. They said there was a hardware issue that was addressed
3. Most of the wiring between Instrument cluster, ECM and TCM tested
4. After cleaning of valve body I've got a few good shifts 1-2-3 but soon realized it is because of bad connection with pressure control solenoid (n93)
5. Rebuilt valve body installed to eliminate possible valve/solenoid issues
6. All 3 speed sensors are new

I might forgetting something.

Please if you have any thoughts share them with me.
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Stripped66
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:27 am    Post subject: Re: Eurovan transmission struggles Reply with quote

vazelinium wrote:
Called back to transmission shop and they rebuild it for the same little amount of money...


I'm going to first ask what exactly they charged you for the rebuild (separate from the installation costs).
Who "rebuilt" the valve body? (and did you procure and install this, or did the repair shop?)
Do you have VCDS to read the live data from the TCM?
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66brm wrote:
Bodacious wrote:
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor.

I don't think electrickery works that way
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vazelinium
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Eurovan transmission struggles Reply with quote

Quote:

I'm going to first ask what exactly they charged you for the rebuild (separate from the installation costs).
Who "rebuilt" the valve body? (and did you procure and install this, or did the repair shop?)
Do you have VCDS to read the live data from the TCM?


Thanks for your reply.
"Rebuild" cost me $1600 each time.
"rebuilt" valve body I've got from amazon, its one of "new solenoids and cleaned and tested" units. I installed it myself and torqued to specs.

I do have VCDS and Launch, and I read data stream, nothing odd. And no fault codes stored.

Yesterday I checked the pressure on the transmission and it looks wrong to me, despite the fact that its pretty high, it should be the same pressure in park and neutral since same solenoids applied :

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Will try to pull the new valve body to make sure its good because I didn't test it before installation and crank down line pressure regulator
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Stripped66
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Eurovan transmission struggles Reply with quote

Was it an actual 01P valve-body, or was it advertised as 01M/01P?
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66brm wrote:
Bodacious wrote:
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor.

I don't think electrickery works that way
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vazelinium
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Eurovan transmission struggles Reply with quote

Stripped66 wrote:
Was it an actual 01P valve-body, or was it advertised as 01M/01P?


it is 01m325015f
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Stripped66
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Eurovan transmission struggles Reply with quote

vazelinium wrote:
Stripped66 wrote:
Was it an actual 01P valve-body, or was it advertised as 01M/01P?


it is 01m325015f


What is the 3-letter code on the tag attached to the solenoid hold-down bar?


vazelinium wrote:

Yesterday I checked the pressure on the transmission and it looks wrong to me, despite the fact that its pretty high, it should be the same pressure in park and neutral since same solenoids applied


Check pressure when the fluid is hot...Drive, reverse and park pressure might drop back down to the normal range. As far as the pressure in neutral, I don't have a reference for that. However, despite having the same solenoids applied as park, there is also manual engagement of hydraulic circuits...park engages the B2-brake, whereas neutral does not.


FWIW, the N93 solenoid should be the only solenoid actively regulated while holding in 3rd gear (outside of shifts and TC lockup). Because you don't have slippage in 3rd when the TCM is disconnected, it would seem to indicate the N93 is bleeding off pressure and allowing 3rd to slip when the TCM is plugged in. It's possible that the N92 solenoid gets activated on the 2-3 shift and doesn't shut off...but that doesn't seem to be happening on the 1-2 shift. In either case, I would be inclined to chase issues with the TCM.
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66brm wrote:
Bodacious wrote:
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor.

I don't think electrickery works that way
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vazelinium
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Eurovan transmission struggles Reply with quote

Quote:
What is the 3-letter code on the tag attached to the solenoid hold-down bar?


̶I̶f̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶t̶a̶l̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶a̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶h̶o̶l̶d̶s̶ ̶5̶ ̶s̶o̶l̶e̶n̶o̶i̶d̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶l̶e̶t̶t̶e̶r̶s̶/̶n̶u̶m̶b̶e̶r̶s̶.̶

LFA

Quote:
Check pressure when the fluid is hot...Drive, reverse and park pressure might drop back down to the normal range. As far as the pressure in neutral, I don't have a reference for that. However, despite having the same solenoids applied as park, there is also manual engagement of hydraulic circuits...park engages the B2-brake, whereas neutral does not.


Tried hot and cold, triple checked fluid level, same story. Stall test passed.

Quote:
FWIW, the N93 solenoid should be the only solenoid actively regulated while holding in 3rd gear (outside of shifts and TC lockup). Because you don't have slippage in 3rd when the TCM is disconnected, it would seem to indicate the N93 is bleeding off pressure and allowing 3rd to slip when the TCM is plugged in. It's possible that the N92 solenoid gets activated on the 2-3 shift and doesn't shut off...but that doesn't seem to be happening on the 1-2 shift. In either case, I would be inclined to chase issues with the TCM.


So, from your point of view it looks like its electronical issue? It seems to me very unlikely to have 2 TCMs with same issues unless there is an error in data from ECM something like speed or throttle position.

It is would be wonderful to find someone who would volunteer to put my TCM into his van to make sure its TCM issue but it doesn't seems to be happening

Ill try to backprobe all the solenoids to see when they get activated. if n92 stays on ill try to install a switch in the line to manually activate it. Im trying to understand if disconnecting of n93 leads to TCM going into limp mode or it just pumps up the pressure. Until I understand the logic of shifting and what data required for solenoids activation I feel like I'm just a monkey with a screwdriver
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Stripped66
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Eurovan transmission struggles Reply with quote

Samba member bcollins (Brian) is located in Austin. He may be willing to test out your TCU.
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66brm wrote:
Bodacious wrote:
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor.

I don't think electrickery works that way
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vazelinium
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Eurovan transmission struggles Reply with quote

Stripped66 wrote:
Samba member bcollins (Brian) is located in Austin. He may be willing to test out your TCU.


Thank you!
Ill DM him.
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Tvättbjörn
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:00 am    Post subject: Re: Eurovan transmission struggles Reply with quote

Before you remove the valve body just check resistance of each solenoid on the main connector on the transmission according to the wiring diagram. That way you know that the wiring from the connector to the solenoids and the solenoid wiring itself is good.
However, it does not mean that the solenoid actually works.

I have also seen seen cracked / broken wires outside the transmission in areas where the loom moves a little bit. Rodent damage is a different possibility.

If you have a partial ( Lets say 10 out of 13 small wires in one wire ) broken / damaged wire it will most likely not set a DTC because the TCM still sees an ok signal / good circuit , but the solenoid might not get pulled because the wire is not large enough to carry the current anymore.

Wiggle the wires while performing your continuity wiring test. Especially the areas with movement in the engine compartment.
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Stripped66
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:26 am    Post subject: Re: Eurovan transmission struggles Reply with quote

Tvättbjörn wrote:
Before you remove the valve body just check resistance of each solenoid on the main connector on the transmission according to the wiring diagram. That way you know that the wiring from the connector to the solenoids and the solenoid wiring itself is good.


Certainly, good advice to double-check the common-denominators to the problem.

To the OP: just remember that 3rd gear holds just fine when NONE of the solenoids are working. Your problem seems to be ONE (or more) of the solenoids is bleeding off pressure* (presumably...you can measure this and see for yourself) in 3rd gear when it isn't doing this in 1st or 2nd. These are all pull-to-ground circuits, so each solenoid is receiving + voltage and the TCU is grounding the solenoid to activate it...if you still have a break in the harness somewhere that is grounding out, this possibly could be energizing a solenoid that is otherwise off (but why only in 3rd and not 1st or 2nd?).

Tvättbjörn wrote:

However, it does not mean that the solenoid actually works.

Which is a good point; it's possible the N93 is sticking open. Swap the N93 (EV6) and N91 (EV4). Just be aware that a solenoid sticking open on the TCC will lock up the torque-converter, so be prepared to throw it in neutral if it remains locked up as you come to a stop.
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66brm wrote:
Bodacious wrote:
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor.

I don't think electrickery works that way
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: Eurovan transmission struggles Reply with quote

The fact that he trans threw itself into Park at speed strikes me as a hard wiring problem from the outset. That should've been investigated way back when it was first rebuilt--I know, not helpful now.
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Casey--
Volkswagens powered by Volkswagen
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052 -- coming soon: automatic w/3.08 R&P
'01 Weekender VR6 -->2.5 TDI Syncro?
'04 Passat Variant BHW. Perpetual limp mode. Wish it had a manual pump.
Oly Bulli
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vazelinium
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: Eurovan transmission struggles Reply with quote

Thank y'all.

I've already mixmatched all the solenoids from 2 valve bodies so I'm assuming its not solenoid issue.

Zeitgeist 13 has a very good point and I understand that there is no magic and I already exploded the harness all the way from TCM to transmission 12 pin plug, checked the resistance of every wire that I was able to trace. Ribbon cable new, solenoids resistance within specs.

The only thing I can think of is that it was a short somewhere at the end of the harness where electrician been messing with and it burn da sh*t out of TCM, he left it the way it is and then when I plugged the new TCM I burned it also and computer repair guys wasn't able to find the issue.

It doesn't look to me like bad torque converter or any mechanical issues but i might be wrong since when I used to work in VW/Skoda dealer back in Russia I didn't gain much of experience with transmissions. And unfortunately I lost contact with the guy who was a transmission God at that shop .

Im probably gonna build the simple 7 bulb board to see the solenoid activations then we'll see.
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vazelinium
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: Eurovan transmission struggles Reply with quote


Link



So, I built the board.
As I can see, it energizes n89(according to manual "energized in 2nd and 4th to apply b-2 brake") then after a second it goes of In the same time n92 stays on all the time during acceleration but it goes on and off. Also in 1-2 shift it applies n94 but according to the manual it only used in 2-3 and 3-4 shifts.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Im trying to figure out if this caused by faulty TCM itself or it could be wrong input data lets say from ECM such as speed or throttle position.
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Stripped66
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:53 am    Post subject: Re: Eurovan transmission struggles Reply with quote

Does N93 ever go off?
It's a PWM circuit that should vary with engine load/rpm, and with the LEDs for N93 being constant-on, it suggests that it is bleeding off line pressure the entire time...

If N93 never goes off, either the circuit is grounded due to bad/damaged wiring, or the MOSFET within the TCU failed (circuit is closed).
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66brm wrote:
Bodacious wrote:
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor.

I don't think electrickery works that way
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vazelinium
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Eurovan transmission struggles Reply with quote

Stripped66 wrote:
Does N93 ever go off?
It's a PWM circuit that should vary with engine load/rpm, and with the LEDs for N93 being constant-on, it suggests that it is bleeding off line pressure the entire time...

If N93 never goes off, either the circuit is grounded due to bad/damaged wiring, or the MOSFET within the TCU failed (circuit is closed).


N93 constantly on. But since I used LEDs and n93 has pulsemodulated signal it cannot be accurate enough. Ill try to replace n93 LED with regular bulb then drive it. And ill recheck the wiring.
Also switch-grounding of n89 throws TCM into mode when only n93 is active.
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